Brendan Rizzo

This is another speculative thread by me; ever since I learned of the existence of the "gnostic heresies" in early Christianity, I've wondered how Western culture would have been different if these heterodox versions of Christianity became popular, and if Constantine had made one of them the official religion instead of proto-Catholicism.

For instance, from what I know of the Marcionites, if they had come to power it's quite possible that Europe would have become even more antisemitic than it did in real life, if one can even imagine that. On the other hand, if the Ebionites had survived, it's possible that the West would not have been so accepting of the idea of the supernatural. But since I don't know all that much about these competing views of Christianity, I would like to read your thoughts on the matter.

James The Least

The Marcionites weren't anti-Semitic in the same sense some of the Catholics were; neither were the Gnostics. They viewed YHWH as an inferior demiurge but still viewed Genesis as a historical-mystical document of great importance. They may have viewed the Jews as inferior, but they did not view them as "Christ-killers" like some of the Catholics did.

The Catholics were more intensely involved with the LXX than the Marcionites and Gnostics who either didn't use it at all, or used it only sparingly. This created a mimetic rivalry for the intellectual ownership of YHWH and the entire Bible that would have fatal consequences. The Marcionites and Gnostics only wanted to own Jesus, not YHWH or the LXX.

Toto

The gnostics emphasized looking for an individual truth within, based on personal experience, rather than accepting the authority of a leader. This is probably why Constantine did not pick one of the gnostic heresies as the basis for his rule.

Roger Pearse

Can I ask upon what ancient sources this is based?

All the best,

Roger Pearse

PhilosopherJay

Hi Brendan Rizzo,

I would say that a new and heterodox brand of Christianity was adopted by Constantine.. It could only be the thick soup it is today with all sorts of diverse and contradictory ingredients thrown in.

Warmly,

Jay Raskin

thief of fire

Precisely. The idea that the mystery is in you is a very different idea to the one that the organisation is the custodian of the mystery and one must join the organisation to get in touch with it.

aa5874

The Marcionites did NOT want to own Jesus.

It is documented that Marcion preached another God and another Son of God.

The Marcionite God was NOT the God of the Jews.
The Marcionite Son of God was NOT Jesus of Nazareth--was NOT born of a woman--was NOT of the seed of David.

Marcionism preached DUALISM--no such thing is in the Entire NT.

Justin's First Apology XXVIJustin's First Apology LVIII Hippolytus also claimed that Marcionism was derived from Empodocles--and that Marcion preached the doctrine of Dualism--the Good and the Evil God.

Hippolytus' Refutation of All Heresies 7 Ephraim the Syrian ALSO corroborated Justin Martyr when he wrote his prose against Marcion.

Ephraim's Against Marcion 111 For at least 200 years, from 2nd century Justin to 4th century Ephraim, there was a tradition that the Marcionites did NOT accept the teachings of the Jesus cult nor their Gods including Jesus.

Minimalist

If only Maxentius had won the Battle of the Milvian Bridge.

We would have been saved 1,500 years of xtian doom and gloom.

Robert Tulip

I agree with Toto and thief of fire. The difference between Orthodoxy and Gnosticism is that Orthodoxy sets political stability as its primary value, whereas Gnosticism sets personal understanding of truth as its primary value.

Stability enables the political objectives of peace and security and order. Where a society has experienced conflict, people are willing to sacrifice intellectual coherence for the sake of a lowest common denominator belief system, a modus vivendi, that meets emotional and social needs, as well as the broad political needs of stability.

The evolution of Roman belief from Jupiter (aka deus pater) through Sol Invictus to Jesus Christ as the coordinating narrative for social unity involved a steady shift from an isolated cultural myth to one that would serve the need for unity in diversity as the empire gradually recognised the common humanity of different cultures.

It was never possible that Gnosticism could succeed for long. In the Late Empire, religion was a weapon of war. A simple belief system was needed that all could accept. Dissent was increasingly seen as destabilising sedition, and therefore defined as heresy. Gnosticism had already been forced into an esoteric hidden status by the implicit observation of heresiologists such as Irenaeus that personal vision is incapable of serving church growth.

The early church can be compared in evolutionary terms to the shift from the Cambrian explosion 500 million years ago to the Devonian Age of Fishes. In the Cambrian, there were many different body forms (phylla). The tetrapod, the four footed base of reptiles and mammals, evolved in the Devonian as the most efficient and therefore subsequently successful phylum for emergence onto land. Christian orthodoxy was the tetrapod of the Roman Empire in memetic terms, an efficient and effective belief system best suited to the available niche.

Jaybees

Nah! Humankind is doomed to suffer and to wallow in its suffering. The details might have been different if Constantine had gotten his comeuppance in the battle, but the big picture would have been the same.