Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Bingo the Clown-O · 06-28-2013, 06:57 AM

The internet is full of this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by typical

The earliest known church inscription (found near Damascus) is Marcionite, and dates to 318 CE.
Συναγωγη Μαρκιωνιστων κωμ(ης)
Λεβαβων του κ(υριο)υ και σω(τη)ρ(ος) Ιη(σου) Χρηστου
προνοια(ι) Παυλου πρεσβ(υτερου) -- του λχ' ετους.

["The meeting-house of the Marcionists, in the village of
Lebaba, of the Lord and Savior Jesus The Good.
Erected by the forethought of Paul the elder -- In the year 630."]

http://deusdiapente.blogspot.com/200...scription.html

What is the source for that info?

I see it everywhere – but no one ever cites their source.

Where did that claim originate?

What book? What publication? What author?

Anyone know?

And are there any pics avalible online?

Thanks in advance,

- Bingo

stephan huller · 06-28-2013, 07:05 AM

Yes there are bad pictures on the web. It's a site in a village called Deir Ali in Syria. Got a camera? You know the old joke. First prize one week in Syria. Second prize two weeks in Syria.

Bingo the Clown-O · 06-28-2013, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

Yes there are bad pictures on the web. It's a site in a village called Deir Ali in Syria.

Yea, I know it's from Deir Ali. But methinks everyone is just repeating what one has been told.

So again:

What is the source for that info?

I see it everywhere – but no one ever cites their source.

Where did that claim originate?

What book? What publication? What author?

Anyone know?

Do you have a link to any of those "bad pictures on the web?"

stephan huller · 06-28-2013, 07:27 AM

Just do a Google search for bits and pieces of the story. 'Deir Ali' and Marcionite and you'll see it.

stephan huller · 06-28-2013, 07:28 AM

von Harnack for starters on the inscription:

http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/rak/course...4ch3-3-120.htm

stephan huller · 06-28-2013, 07:30 AM

When I do a Bing Image Search for 'deir ali' and 'Marcionite' I get only four pictures and one of them is a woman in a white bikini

stephan huller · 06-28-2013, 07:32 AM

With Google presto!

Bingo the Clown-O · 06-28-2013, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

With Google presto!

Excellent.

Thank you Stephan – that’s exactly what I’m looking for.

If anyone else has other pics or links to pics please post them here.

Roger Pearse · 06-28-2013, 02:14 PM

"Jesus the good"? Jesus Christ, surely? Unless someone has forgotten that ancient orthography wasn't what you might expect today...?

stephan huller · 06-28-2013, 02:24 PM

But it's also a title of god in Philo (I can dig up the reference somewhere). Chrestos is also referenced as a title of Jesus in Tertullian and Lactantius. It also more naturally fits the nomen sacrum XS because apparently it was used to check manuscripts (or so Cassiodorus or someone from that period's testimony).

David and I have spent a lot of time talking about this here. Another factor to consider is that chrestos is used to translate yashar in the LXX and yashar is a homiletic explanation for the etymology of the name of Israel (= the upright). Chrestos is also used to describe the upper classes in ancient Athens. Christianoi is bizarre. Chrestoi well it's quite natural.

I think itacism would explain why there was such confusion over the two names. But did Suetonius's source 'mistake' Chrestos for Christos or vice versa? Does any of this have anything to do with Christianity? Maybe not. But itacism is very significant in the period and the question of the interchangeability of the titles. But since the Marcionite held fast to the exclusive divinity of Jesus, Chrestos is the natural title of such a being rather than Christos.

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06-28-2013, 07:05 AM	#2
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Yes there are bad pictures on the web. It's a site in a village called Deir Ali in Syria. Got a camera? You know the old joke. First prize one week in Syria. Second prize two weeks in Syria.

06-28-2013, 07:27 AM	#4
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Just do a Google search for bits and pieces of the story. 'Deir Ali' and Marcionite and you'll see it.

06-28-2013, 07:28 AM	#5
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	von Harnack for starters on the inscription: http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/rak/course...4ch3-3-120.htm

06-28-2013, 07:30 AM	#6
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	When I do a Bing Image Search for 'deir ali' and 'Marcionite' I get only four pictures and one of them is a woman in a white bikini

06-28-2013, 07:32 AM	#7
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	With Google presto!

06-28-2013, 02:14 PM	#9
Roger Pearse Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: N/A Posts: 4,370	"Jesus the good"? Jesus Christ, surely? Unless someone has forgotten that ancient orthography wasn't what you might expect today...?

06-28-2013, 02:24 PM	#10
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	But it's also a title of god in Philo (I can dig up the reference somewhere). Chrestos is also referenced as a title of Jesus in Tertullian and Lactantius. It also more naturally fits the nomen sacrum XS because apparently it was used to check manuscripts (or so Cassiodorus or someone from that period's testimony). David and I have spent a lot of time talking about this here. Another factor to consider is that chrestos is used to translate yashar in the LXX and yashar is a homiletic explanation for the etymology of the name of Israel (= the upright). Chrestos is also used to describe the upper classes in ancient Athens. Christianoi is bizarre. Chrestoi well it's quite natural. I think itacism would explain why there was such confusion over the two names. But did Suetonius's source 'mistake' Chrestos for Christos or vice versa? Does any of this have anything to do with Christianity? Maybe not. But itacism is very significant in the period and the question of the interchangeability of the titles. But since the Marcionite held fast to the exclusive divinity of Jesus, Chrestos is the natural title of such a being rather than Christos.

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