Freethought & Rationalism Archive

spin · 09-15-2013, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juma

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juma

That doesnt change that cruelty is always cruelty.

So, is chopping your enemy's head off with one clean blow cruel?

Why do you ask that?
My answer that iis tiat it is. But I cant really see what it has to do with this discussion.

That's the point: you can't.

PhilosopherJay · 09-15-2013, 08:02 AM

Hi Tom Sawyer

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Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer

But sometimes we can be sure when they are inauthentic.

Warmly,

Jay Raskin

Roger Pearse · 09-16-2013, 06:15 AM

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Originally Posted by Juma

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

Gosh!

We judge by standards we cannot find. That's meaningful.

If we cut the crapping on, you'll eventually admit that we judge by the standards we find suitable from the present day. We try to discern what we consider now as the best possible standards. Yeah, well, really, that you should think of for the available choices of any given era.

You aren't saying anything meaningful thus far, other than that you cannot separate yourself from your baggage of the moment. These best standards are relative to now. Your best standards that you can't actually find are the fruit of an analysis now. Just as those people in the past tried to do the same, judging from the best standards that they could perceive.

This all comes down to the standards discernible in any particular age. You must judge the period by its standards. Until that can be understood as the basis for saying anything meaningful about the past, you won't be speaking about the past, but some invention of your own desire.

Seems that you have a very limited view on what can be meaningful.
If you want to understand the mechanism in the roman society then you must take into consideration the standards of that time.

I think Spin is correct. We must also remember that societies decay as well as progress, and merely "most recent" is not the same as "best".

Quote:

That doesnt change that cruelty is always cruelty.

Not sure; it's probably relative to the general brutality of the age.

But if you are appealing to the Natural Law, the morality of man, then certainly we may agree that, by absolute morality, it is wrong to be cruel. If you not making such an appeal, but merely asserting that the values of the period in which you were born are the supreme moral value, pardon me but I don't agree.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

aa5874 · 09-16-2013, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Pearse

I think Spin is correct. We must also remember that societies decay as well as progress, and merely "most recent" is not the same as "best".

Spin is completely wrong and has little understanding of history. The development of the human society itself is directly based on the PAST ACTIONS of human beings.

It is for the very fact that people have judged that certain actions in antiquity were heinously wrong that we can make laws to abolish Slavery and to enact War Crimes legislation.

When it is seen that people in antiquity who claimed to have heard from God make statements and act to cause Genocide, Rape and large suffering of mankind then one can judge that such persons were wrong and never heard from God.

Numbers 31

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14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle. 15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive ? 16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.

17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

God will not be able to tell anyone today to carry out Genocide and Rape.

We have Laws to make 'God' a criminal if he tells anyone to do carry out such acts.

Sheshbazzar · 09-16-2013, 08:49 AM

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Originally Posted by aa5874

We have Laws to make 'God' a criminal if he tells anyone to do carry out such acts.

....and to prosecute and execute or lock up anyone that acts upon any such insane religious claim.

No doubt there were persons back then that objected to such barbarity, executed and silenced.
The violence of the times have never been a valid excuse for unjust conduct and evil acts by any.

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