Freethought & Rationalism Archive

stephan huller · 09-04-2013, 11:12 PM

I will take you up on your 'what's stopping ...' argument.

Apparently Google maps says it is 600 km from Istanbul to Ierissos, Chalkidiki, Greece the closest city I can find near this remote monastery.

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl

stephan huller · 09-04-2013, 11:13 PM

Here is a monastery at Mount Athos. This is approximately where the Philosophumena was kept.

stephan huller · 09-04-2013, 11:16 PM

Here is another obstacle to your idea that someone read the story at Mount Athos and then decided to incorporate it into Dio Cassius

Quote:

(1) If you are a member of the clergy or a monastic of any church or tradition (Orthodox or otherwise), you must obtain written permission to visit Mt Athos from the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople.

(2) If you are a member of the laity (i.e. not ordained), either Orthodox or otherwise, you must organise your visit through the Mt Athos Pilgrim's office in Thessaloniki.

So it wasn't being held in a 'public library'

stephan huller · 09-04-2013, 11:19 PM

The monastery at Mount Athos is shut off from the rest of the world. It stands in an isolated part of a massive isolated peninsula. The roads suck. I know people that have gone to these places. You have to take a donkey and it is a long arduous trek.

Quote:

Mount Athos is situated in the entire third, eastern and most beautiful peninsula of Halkidiki, called the peninsula of Athos. It is the only place in Greece that is completely dedicated to prayer and worship of God. For this reason, it is called the Holy Mount. The Holy Mount is about 50 Km in length, 8 to 12 Km in width and it covers an area of about 350 square kilometres. The borders of the monasterial city are defined on the ground by an imaginary line that starts from the location "FRAGOKASTRO" in the West coast and reaches the cape "ARAPIS" in the opposite end. The natural beauty of the peninsula is extraordinary. The highest point of Mount Athos is like a huge cone, reaching 2033 metres in height. It’s a naked, treeless crest that seems to lance the sky and its slopes are fully covered by ancient evergreens. All these help to create an area of incomparable natural beauty

Quote:

Agion Oros (Holy Mount) is an "Autonomous Monastic State" inside Greece, (unique in the world), located at peninsula of Athos of Chalkidiki, that is considered to be the centre Orthodoxe monasticism. It is considered to be one of the most important departments not only of Balkan, but of Europe and of Eastern Church because of its huge national, historical, religious, secretarial and artistic value as well as a centre of maintenance and conservation of rich material. The architectural heritage of Agion Oros, which is a result and residue of many years’ activity and development of many monastic institutions, can in one degree be considered as it summarises the medieval and newer architecture of orthodox Balkan space.

It is indeed a shelter and a museum of unique treasure of Greek art and letters. However the most important in the Agion Oros is the fact, that this expresses at the evener way the Orthodoxe monasticism. It is a thousand years solitary state that lives until today. A world simple and difficult, where it rests the spirit, fills the soul and it experiences the substance of Orthodoxy. A world that lives God oriented and during its thousand years historical route has as its main characteristic the high spirituality. The entire the life of nuns and all of their work are products of this spirituality. Each heirloom is a gate of sky, a gate in paradise.

stephan huller · 09-04-2013, 11:24 PM

And this is important too:

Quote:

Joannes Xiphilinus (Greek: Ἰωάννης Ξιφιλῖνος), epitomator of Dio Cassius, lived at Constantinople during the latter half of the 11th century AD

stephan huller · 09-04-2013, 11:27 PM

From an article on another Cassius Dio manuscript at Mount Athos:

Quote:

But, principally because the. Mount Athos collections are not easily accessible, this Epitome of Dio's. History has been neglected

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.230...21102583826701

stephan huller · 09-04-2013, 11:32 PM

I don't see any evidence yet that John Xiphilinus went to Mount Athos.

Quote:

John Xiphilinus became Head of the Faculty of Law in the University of Constantinople, then monk and Abbot of a monastery in Asia Minor, and finally Patriarch of Constantinople.

stephan huller · 09-04-2013, 11:37 PM

It also seems that much of the material from Dio that survives outside of John Xiphilinus is by epitome:

http://books.google.com/books?id=Aif...script&f=false

Roger Pearse · 09-05-2013, 03:17 AM

Thank you Stephan - gorgeous pictures and some very useful info.

aa5874 · 09-05-2013, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

.......Your point is that with one unknown and ignored theological manuscript at the remote monastery at the top of Mount Athos and a historical manuscript from ancient Rome residing in Constantinople, modern Istanbul that 'that's good enough' for a possible causal connection? Really?

Then on top of that you have figure a motive for someone having done this. Do you have a motive? Of course not.

You have already given us a motive for forgeries--to prove PRIMACY.

The Epitomiser of Cassius Dio appears to be a Jesus cult Christian and admitted to making claims about Christians that were NOT found in Cassius Dio "Roman History".

It is therefore virtually impossible to say with any certainty that Cassius Dio mentioned Christians without corroboration from non-apologetic sources.

There is no non-apologetic source that can confirm the story of Marcia and her favors to Christians or what those Christians believed.

Were those Christians Marcionites?

Marcionites were called Christians in the 2nd century.

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09-04-2013, 11:12 PM	#151
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	I will take you up on your 'what's stopping ...' argument. Apparently Google maps says it is 600 km from Istanbul to Ierissos, Chalkidiki, Greece the closest city I can find near this remote monastery. https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl

09-04-2013, 11:13 PM	#152
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Here is a monastery at Mount Athos. This is approximately where the Philosophumena was kept.

09-04-2013, 11:37 PM	#158
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	It also seems that much of the material from Dio that survives outside of John Xiphilinus is by epitome: http://books.google.com/books?id=Aif...script&f=false

09-05-2013, 03:17 AM	#159
Roger Pearse Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: N/A Posts: 4,370	Thank you Stephan - gorgeous pictures and some very useful info.

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