Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Peter Kirby · 09-23-2013, 12:51 PM

My experience with Hermann Detering is enough to make me very intrigued what else may be going on outside the Anglosphere. I want a look at what's going on "meanwhile in..." Germany, France, Italy, Russia, Spain, etc.

I know that there was one Russian guy who had a bunch of books that basically uprooted all of the classical world as fiction (read his first book, did not see the sequels)... anyhow, while Doherty and Price and Carrier and so on have built up a little corpus of thought in English, there has been very little interface between this camp and whatever's going on beyond the language barrier.

I can be very persistent if I want to be, with a hobby of reading Google translate garbage (and some German in college), so... what's out there?

stephan huller · 09-23-2013, 01:32 PM

Vridar I think was into this Greek author. I forget his name but check through their archives. No one reads anything widely unless it is written in English. Facts of life.

arnoldo · 09-23-2013, 06:00 PM

Although it's written in English, Behold the Man (or via: amazon.co.uk) by Michael Moorcock has 'bout the same probability of being true as any of the mythicist stuff out there written in any language IMHO.

Toto · 09-23-2013, 10:40 PM

Hi Peter - nice to see you again.

Check out Rene Salm's site http://www.mythicistpapers.com/ (Salm is not 100% mythicist, as it turns out.)

Salm has translated an investigation by Enrico Tuccinardi into the validity of the Caesarea inscription, which you can read there.

The source of this is

Quote:

... the 2010 Cahier of the Cercle Ernest Renan, a forward-looking association which has, through the years, promoted cutting edge research into Christian origins, including original work by Ory, Couchoud, Loisy, and Guignebert. Enrico Tuccinardi, the article’s author, and myself have been in communication for the last several weeks.

Salm has also translated some articles by George Ory from that site

There may be more of interest there: http://cercleernestrenan.org/

Peter Kirby · 09-23-2013, 11:54 PM

Huller - thanks for the hint. The only thing I could discover about a Greek writer concerns a magazine article with an interview of Acharya S.

Toto - good to see you too! Thanks for the tip to this website. Good finds.

I must keep an eye out.

arnoldo · 09-24-2013, 04:49 AM

The Emperor Julian writes that the Apostle John was the first to begin the process of "mythologizing" Jesus and call him God. Julian writes,

Quote:

But you are so misguided that you have not even remained faithful to the teachings that were handed down to you by the apostles. And these also have been altered., so as to be worse and more impious, by those who came after. At any rate neither Paul nor Matthew nor Luke nor Mark ventured to call Jesus God. But the worthy John, since he perceived that a great number of people in many of the towns of Greece and Italy had already been infected by this disease,131 and because he heard, I suppose, that even the tombs of Peter and Paul were being worshipped ----secretly, it is true, but still he did hear this,----he, I say, was the first to venture to call Jesus God.

http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/ju...ans_1_text.htm

I don't know if there are other "mythicists" like Julian who felt the Jesus never existed. Maybe the gnostics?

Toto · 09-24-2013, 10:48 AM

Please stick to the topic. The OP requests contemporary mythicist authors.

Julian was not a mythicist (whatever Pete claims), and is not a contemporary author.

Tom Verenna · 09-25-2013, 08:31 AM

I'm not sure what the definition of 'mythicist' is you're using here, Peter, but there are several 'Jesus agnostics' (not the same thing as a mythicist) from Europe who contributed to my co-edited volume--Thomas Thompson, my co-editor, among them.

aa5874 · 09-25-2013, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Verenna

I'm not sure what the definition of 'mythicist' is you're using here, Peter, but there are several 'Jesus agnostics' (not the same thing as a mythicist) from Europe who contributed to my co-edited volume--Thomas Thompson, my co-editor, among them.

What is a 'Jesus agnostic'?

Now, there is also a problem with the definition of 'historicist'.

It would appear to me that those who argue that Jesus existed but as a God or as a resurrected being are really 'mythicists'.

Are Christian scholars 'historicists' or 'mythicists' when they argue that Jesus was a resurrected creature?

There may be far more 'mythicists' authors than previously thought.

Peter Kirby · 09-25-2013, 07:52 PM

Thanks, Tom. While I agree that they aren't the same thing, I am interested in the "agnostics" as well. Thanks for the tip!

09-23-2013, 12:51 PM	#1
Peter Kirby Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: the reliquary of Ockham's razor Posts: 4,035	Looking for more contemporary non-English "Mythicist" / "Radical" Authors My experience with Hermann Detering is enough to make me very intrigued what else may be going on outside the Anglosphere. I want a look at what's going on "meanwhile in..." Germany, France, Italy, Russia, Spain, etc. I know that there was one Russian guy who had a bunch of books that basically uprooted all of the classical world as fiction (read his first book, did not see the sequels)... anyhow, while Doherty and Price and Carrier and so on have built up a little corpus of thought in English, there has been very little interface between this camp and whatever's going on beyond the language barrier. I can be very persistent if I want to be, with a hobby of reading Google translate garbage (and some German in college), so... what's out there?

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09-23-2013, 01:32 PM	#2
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Vridar I think was into this Greek author. I forget his name but check through their archives. No one reads anything widely unless it is written in English. Facts of life.

09-23-2013, 06:00 PM	#3
arnoldo Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Latin America Posts: 4,066	Although it's written in English, Behold the Man (or via: amazon.co.uk) by Michael Moorcock has 'bout the same probability of being true as any of the mythicist stuff out there written in any language IMHO.

09-23-2013, 11:54 PM	#5
Peter Kirby Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: the reliquary of Ockham's razor Posts: 4,035	Huller - thanks for the hint. The only thing I could discover about a Greek writer concerns a magazine article with an interview of Acharya S. Toto - good to see you too! Thanks for the tip to this website. Good finds. I must keep an eye out.

09-24-2013, 10:48 AM	#7
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Please stick to the topic. The OP requests contemporary mythicist authors. Julian was not a mythicist (whatever Pete claims), and is not a contemporary author.

09-25-2013, 08:31 AM	#8
Tom Verenna Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 75	I'm not sure what the definition of 'mythicist' is you're using here, Peter, but there are several 'Jesus agnostics' (not the same thing as a mythicist) from Europe who contributed to my co-edited volume--Thomas Thompson, my co-editor, among them.

09-25-2013, 07:52 PM	#10
Peter Kirby Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: the reliquary of Ockham's razor Posts: 4,035	Thanks, Tom. While I agree that they aren't the same thing, I am interested in the "agnostics" as well. Thanks for the tip!

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