Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 08-14-2013, 02:45 PM

Is This Not the Carpenter?: The Question of the Historicity of the Figure of Jesus (Copenhagen International Seminar) (or via: amazon.co.uk) Paperback

Quote:

The historicity of Jesus is now widely accepted, but this assumption disarms biblical texts of much of their power by privileging an historical interpretation, effectively sweeping aside much theological speculation and allusion. The assumption of historicity gathers further assumptions to it, shaping the interpretation of texts, both denying and adding subtext. We are now faced with an endless array of works on the historical Jesus few of which question what has been lost through this wide-spread assumption of historicity. "Is This Not The Carpenter?" offers readers the most up to date overview of how the historicity of Jesus is examined in contemporary scholarship. An international range of scholars - with divergent views on the historical Jesus - present a literary re-reading of the New Testament, arguing that the gospel evidence is to be discovered not in oral tradition but in the written literature of the ancient world.

Vorkosigan · 08-14-2013, 11:10 PM

Goddamit. Have these people not heard of Kindle?

Tom Verenna · 08-15-2013, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vorkosigan

Goddamit. Have these people not heard of Kindle?

It's actually well-priced for an academic paperback. Have you seen Brill's prices lately? ;-)

http://www.brill.com/recognizing-stranger-0

This book has a few dozen less pages than 'Carpenter' and is $20-$30 more expensive (depending on the discount offered for 'Carpenter' by distributors). So the paperback price is not too shabby. I know it isn't the same as the $10 or less Kindle offers, but it isn't worth freaking out over--at least I don't think so, keeping the market in mind.

Toto · 08-15-2013, 08:14 AM

Tom Verenna's blog

Until the end of August, the book is available from the publisher with a 20% discount. Go to the Publisher's website and use the promo code from the blog post.

(Amazon offers a 25% discount, but only has one copy on hand.)

Grog · 08-15-2013, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Verenna

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vorkosigan

Goddamit. Have these people not heard of Kindle?

It's actually well-priced for an academic paperback. Have you seen Brill's prices lately? ;-)

http://www.brill.com/recognizing-stranger-0

This book has a few dozen less pages than 'Carpenter' and is $20-$30 more expensive (depending on the discount offered for 'Carpenter' by distributors). So the paperback price is not too shabby. I know it isn't the same as the $10 or less Kindle offers, but it isn't worth freaking out over--at least I don't think so, keeping the market in mind.

No, the price isn't bad, but I am also hooked on ebooks, so is there going to be an electronic edition? My shelves are overloaded.

Tom Verenna · 08-15-2013, 11:43 AM

Unfortunately, I don't think so. It isn't up to me anyway. =) Way above my level of influence.

Tom Verenna · 08-15-2013, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Tom Verenna's blog

Until the end of August, the book is available from the publisher with a 20% discount. Go to the Publisher's website and use the promo code from the blog post.

(Amazon offers a 25% discount, but only has one copy on hand.)

Amazon gets their copies from ISD. So while you may get a better discount at Amazon, ordering from ISD means you'll get it directly from the source rather than having to wait for it to come in at Amazon first. Either is fine.

hjalti · 08-19-2013, 10:36 PM

This book was reviewed by James McGrath: here's a pdf of the review

spin · 08-19-2013, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hjalti

This book was reviewed by James McGrath: here's a pdf of the review

It's a great read if you're interested in the predilections of James F. McGrath, though I didn't learn too much about the book being reviewed other than the names of the writers of each chapter and McGrath's polemical reactions to their individual contributions. He gets out of the book what he brings to it.

hjalti · 08-20-2013, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

Quote:

Originally Posted by hjalti

This book was reviewed by James McGrath: here's a pdf of the review

It's a great read if you're interested in the predilections of James F. McGrath, though I didn't learn too much about the book being reviewed other than the names of the writers of each chapter and McGrath's polemical reactions to their individual contributions. He gets out of the book what he brings to it.

True, I noted that in the section about chapter 4.

I found this part of the review interesting:

Quote:

Having dismissed the entire enterprise of historical criticism, the authors continue (immediately after the words just quoted) by simply asserting that “New Testament literature was written with literary, allegorical and, indeed, theological and mythic purpose, rather than as an account of historical events,” and therefore “there is significant need, not to speak of warrant, to doubt the historicity of its figures to the extent that such figures owe their substance to such literature” (10–11). The widely used literary approach to the New Testament has been popular in some religious circles as a way of avoiding historical issues, but here it is suggested that its application somehow disproves the historicity of figures, simply by virtue of the fact that they appear in literature. In most institutions of higher education, students have explained to them early on that historical and literary approaches, while not irrelevant to one another, are not mutually interchangeable and do not perform the same functions. It is not clear to me how Verenna, much less Thompson, could have managed to miss this basic point at some point in their studies.

It seems to me that Verenna and Thompson (V&T) are saying that since the NT is such a dubious source, we should be somewhat skeptical of Jesus' existence to the extent that it's based on this source.

James seems to understand this as saying that if a figure appears in a dubious source then that "disproves the historicity" of that figure.

Am I misunderstanding V&T or McGrath?

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08-14-2013, 11:10 PM	#2
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	Goddamit. Have these people not heard of Kindle?

08-15-2013, 08:14 AM	#4
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Tom Verenna's blog Until the end of August, the book is available from the publisher with a 20% discount. Go to the Publisher's website and use the promo code from the blog post. (Amazon offers a 25% discount, but only has one copy on hand.)

08-15-2013, 11:43 AM	#6
Tom Verenna Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 75	Unfortunately, I don't think so. It isn't up to me anyway. =) Way above my level of influence.

08-19-2013, 10:36 PM	#8
hjalti Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Iceland Posts: 761	This book was reviewed by James McGrath: here's a pdf of the review

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