Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Robert Tulip · 09-29-2013, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rstrats

Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a “discussion” with 6th day crucifixion folks, they frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows that a phrase stating a specific number of days and/or a specific number of nights was ever used in the first century or before when it absolutely couldn't have included at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights?

I really doubt you will find that. The three days of hell for Christ over Easter Saturday begins at 3pm on Friday and ends at 7am on Sunday, forty hours.

This rebirth on the third day motif has a good match to the solstice death of the sun, which rises at the same spot on the horizon for a few days before the feasts of Jesus and John.

steve_bnk · 09-29-2013, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rstrats

I probably should have addressed the OP to those who think that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week.

Keep in mind most around here see the gospels as fiction to begin with.

In any case the gospels were not journalistic account or history.

We have no idea what really happened, if anything. If you want to disuss when, you will need to establish it actually happened.

Duvduv · 09-29-2013, 07:39 AM

Maybe I missed something here in the metaphor, but I don't see how the reference to being in the belly of the earth for three full days and nights could be comparable to merely being entombed in a cave (and then resurrected ON the third day) as is understood in all other references, especially if there is the idea of Jesus entering Hell for a visit, or even as a "sign" to the Pharisees.
Christian commentators seem to argue that this 3 days in the earth is not a reference to the period before the resurrection.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Kesler

Quote:

Originally Posted by rstrats

Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a “discussion” with 6th day crucifixion folks, they frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows that a phrase stating a specific number of days and/or a specific number of nights was ever used in the first century or before when it absolutely couldn't have included at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights?

Matthew 12:40 is the only place which speaks of Jesus' entombment lasting "three days and three nights." Other NT references, even in Matthew, use less specific language:

*Matthew 17:23 ..."on the third day he will be raised"
*Matthew 20:19..."on the third day he will be raised"
*Matthew 26:61..."destroy the temple of God and to build it in three days" (see also Matthew 27:40)
*Matthew 27:64..."Therefore command the tomb to be made secure until the third day"

In Matthew 12:40, Matthew, per his usual practice, has tried to connect Jesus with an OT "prophecy," and the mention of Jonah in the original saying (preserved in Luke's version) proved too tempting for Matthew not to make the resurrection another "sign." That Friday-Sunday morning doesn't equal 72 hours was of no consequence to him. For that matter, unless one can prove that exactly 72 hours elapsed from Jonah 1:17 to 2:10, the basis of comparison was an "error" to begin with.

Jaybees · 09-29-2013, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve_bnk

Quote:

Originally Posted by rstrats

I probably should have addressed the OP to those who think that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week.

Keep in mind most around here see the gospels as fiction to begin with.

In any case the gospels were not journalistic account or history.

We have no idea what really happened, if anything. If you want to disuss when, you will need to establish it actually happened.

No need. The bible is the holy word of the divine being. It's true. Every sing jot and tittle of it.

Instead of questioning, analysis, deep reading...let's simply enjoy the fruits of reading the sacred word.

Bow your head and believe:

*Matthew 17:23 ..."on the third day he will be raised"
*Matthew 20:19..."on the third day he will be raised"
*Matthew 26:61..."destroy the temple of God and to build it in three days" (see also Matthew 27:40)
*Matthew 27:64..."Therefore command the tomb to be made secure until the third day"

See how satisfying, how soothing that is?

Robert Tulip · 09-29-2013, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duvduv

how the reference to being in the belly of the earth for three full days and nights could be comparable to merely being entombed in a cave (and then resurrected ON the third day) as is understood in all other references, especially if there is the idea of Jesus entering Hell for a visit

The verse Matthew 12:40 states "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

The Jonah story is comparable to Easter. Both appear to die and miraculously return to life. The whale is like a force of nature. A cave covered by a rock readily symbolises the heart of the earth. The visit to hell to fetch Abraham and the other unsaved saints only occurred at this time, and hell was conventionally an underworld, for example in the stories of Pluto and Persephone, Ulysses and Orpheus.

Few issues on version control Matt.

Duvduv · 09-29-2013, 08:37 AM

As I mentioned, even Christian commentators argue that this is not the metaphor.

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09-29-2013, 08:37 AM	#26
Duvduv Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: USA Posts: 4,095	As I mentioned, even Christian commentators argue that this is not the metaphor.

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