Bobzammel

In John 12:25 it is stated: "He who loves his life loses it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it eternally"(A similar statement is stated in Luke 14:26). Interestingly this is a passage not often picked up by those oppossed to the bible's morality.

Now the way I see it, there are a few explanations for this phrase used by Christians.

1)The Parrarels. The main parrarel to this phrase is Jesus's: "He who finds/saves his life loses it, and he who loses his life will keep it". These earlier verses suggest perhaps that Jesus is talking about Martyrdom(Since in Matthew and Mark this phrase is associated with persecution). The modern Church doctrine has altered this to mean "Death to self" meaning, being totally devoted to God and not your own way of doing things or own happiness.

2)That Jesus is once again using semitic hyperbole, ala the way some apologists interpet Luke 14:26.


3)That it suggests Christian seperation from the "world". In many cases "World" is used in the NT to describe the unbelieving, morally messed up human society outside the believer. This definition perhaps makes the most sense, since it lines up in a theological sense with the epistles.

3)The Semi-Gnostic definition, stated to be Jesus's "great principle" by Edgar Jones at the slightly controversial www.voiceofjesus.org (See JP Holding's article on Jones, www.tektonics.org/crackedvoice.html) and also quacks like Dore Williamson(Whose views are similar to Jones, in principle if not sanity). In this view, the entire existence in this physical universe is to be utterly detested so through rejection of it one can 'earn' a better life in Heaven.

Marlowe

From what I've read of comparative religion ther are essentially three responses to human awareness of mortality and the reality that life lives by killing - 1) negation, which is what you are equating Christianity to, a more pure example of negation is Sufism, where the goal of the religion is to cease to live; 2) negation of destruction and identification with creation - in practive Christianity is really more in this field. There is an acknowledgement that nature is composed of 'good' and 'bad' forces, but humanity is to choose good and reject bad. Life in this world is composed of both therefore a person's goal is to reach the life of pure goodness in Heaven; and 3) affirmation of the world as it is - which applies to most Buddhist sects - joyful participation in the sorrows of life.

There are elements of pure negation in the New Testament that, as you point out, have been interpreted various ways by various Christians throughout history - but in general Christianity has never gone to real negation like Sufism. Sufis spend their lives divesting themselves of possessions and desires. They begin as vegetarians, go to eating food that has fallen off trees or rotted off the vine, wearing masks so as not to breathe in bugs and kill them, with a goal of finally having no desire whatsoever just before they die. Sufism is a small religion (obviously). I think the early Chruch realized that if it interpreted the line from John as pure negation it would not have very many followers.

philechat

Marlowe:

I think you are talking more about Jainism rather than Sufism. Sufism is a mystical Muslim sect that is widely practiced in Java, Indonesia, and so far they do not practice to the point of giving up possession or becoming vegetarians.

Jains were so protective of other lives that they carried a sweep when they walked on the streets to avoid stepping on bugs. It was practiced somewhere in India and fit the description you used for Sufism.

Bobzammel

It's also interesting that Christianity's POV on life on this planet is directly counter to that of Judaism, which it is suppossed to be a continuation of.
Deuturonomic theology for instance, blesses the believer with material blessings and prosperity in exchange for following God's laws.
Likewise, Ecclesiates also states one should "enjoy what they've got" despite life's many dissiapointments.