MrDarwin

From this article (emphasis added):
Soldier Says He's Conscientious Objector

So... why a chaplain? And I wonder if atheists and agnostics would be allowed any basis to apply?

NYCparalegal

I always thought that a military chaplain was the modern version of the witch doctor. I wonder if this is in any way related to the stereotype that there are no atheists in foxholes, therefore any ground for conscientious objectors is probably based on some religion or another.

dangin

My understanding is that there are grounds for a non theistic person to be a conscientious objector. But I am at a loss for the data to back that up.

Toto

An explanation

Conscientious objection has long been a recognized exemption from military service when the objection is based on pacifistic religious beliefs of the historic peace churches: the Anabaptists (Mennonites, Amish, and Hutterites), the Brethren, and the Quakers.

During the Vietnam era, several Supreme Court cases extended the exemption to non-religious pacifists, in the process struggling with the definition of religion. United States v. Seeger 1965 {that's Pete Seeger, the folk singer} and Welsh v. United States 1970.

Since this was originally a religious category, it makes some sort of sense to have a chaplain examine the soldier to be sure that this sudden bout of pacifism is based on some religious or philosophical belief, and is not just an excuse to get out of the army.

Dark Jedi

<puts on his Nomex underwear in preperation of this unpopular response>

There are no concientious objectors in the military. Only idiots and cowards.

Why? The military today is 100% volunteer. No draftees, no unwilling participants.

Who can logically say they did not know that the purpose of the military is war?

While applicable in past wars where the draft was a factor, there is no foundation for such claims today.

<Raises Dragonscale shield in preperation of flames>

Fisheye

I don't know...some of the reasons given in the article don't seem that far-fetched. Pressure from family or recruiter, signing up without thinking it through, etc. You can say those aren't very good reasons to join, and you'd be right. I'm not sure that an error in judgement is reason to send somebody to war against what they believe in. Another reason, which is probably a much better defense, is that they -actually changed their views- since joining. I don't think it's that farfetched - usually it's people just out of high school who join up,so perhaps once they get away from their family and meet some new people and encounter some new ideas, they'd form an opinion different from the one the held when they signed up.

VonEvilstein

Perhaps they simply assumed that any war they were sent to fight would be a just one? Having come the personal conclusion that this war is not just, one can imagine them no longer feeling that they are able to fight this campaign.

Ovazor

There can be people whose philosphical, ethical, or religious views have changed drastically since they joined the military.

Psycho Economist

Objections over a particular conflict will never win you C.O. status. You have to be have a logically consistent to any form of participation under arms, in which case they take away your gun, slap a nice red and white targets on your arm and helmet and make you a military medic. Or you have to be opposed to all forms of military service, in which case they put you into to work changing old folks diapers at some run-down state run nursing home for the remainder of your enlistment.

keitht

Dark Jedi has stated the point exactly. All military today are volunteers. It is more than evident to any person capable of deciding they are a conscientious objector, that killing other humans may be part of the job requirement, no matter what specific job they eventually end up with (e.g., cleck, mechanic, etc.). Weapons training begins in the second week of basic training (at least in the US Army). Target practice (rifle, grenade, bayonet, etc.) is done on human shaped targets. If somebody makes it through their basic training and hasn't decided they've made a mistake, then its too late to change your mind. There are a million ways to washout of basic without receiving some sort of permanant blotch on your "record". If you decide right before you're due to ship off to a war zone that you don't want to "play Army" anymore, sorry its too late to change your mind. You can can serve out the rest of your term in the stockade. I have no sympathy for a fair weather soldier.

As for the involvement of the chaplains in some of the military's personnel decision making processes, I think that's probably more of a tradition than any sort of religious plot. There are military leaders that do make religion an "issue", but they are far from the majority. If you can remember the chaplain character on the TV program MASH, then that's probably a good analogy of how most chaplains interact in the military. They're maginalized, used for much of the less desirable duties, and often focused on morale issues with little if any religious function.

While part of me is significantly averse to the idea of my taxes paying for religion in the military, when you have people employed in such a job that requires them to potentially loose their life as an inherant part of the job description, then I'm willing to make an exception if it makes a percentage of those people, no matter how large or small, more personally at ease with their fulfilling their required tasks. I still think its a giant waste of money, but I'm willing to accept it as a necessary evil until the ignorance level (both military and civilian) increases to point where silly superstition doesn't drive plilosophy.

Keith