Freethought & Rationalism Archive

moiii · 02-20-2002, 07:13 AM

Faith can be defined, as believing in that which you cannot see. Take gravity for example, you cannot see it, but you know it is there. In my opinion faith is the same way. No, I cannot see God, but I know he is there. I see how he works in the lives of those that believe and put their faith in him. In essence, all people have faith. Whether it is in God or not is irrelevant. The point is, we all have faith in something. Christians claim faith in God, atheists claim faith in the absence of God. Either way, both are exhibiting faith because neither side has all of the answers. I guess it is just a matter of where we ultimately decide to place our faith.

Draygomb · 02-20-2002, 07:25 AM

Except, Atheists don't have Faith.

sbaii · 02-20-2002, 07:26 AM

[
The point is, we all have faith in something. Christians claim faith in God, atheists claim faith in the absence of God. Either way, both are exhibiting faith because neither side has all of the answers. I guess it is just a matter of where we ultimately decide to place our faith.[/QB][/QUOTE]
=================================================
To say I have faith in a negative is rather peculiar. As an atheist, I have faith in natural law and the human mind's capability to understand it and use it to improve the quality of our lives.You have to admit that the christian churches have done a lot to make people not trust them. They have stood in the way of scientific progress for the most part.

Echo · 02-20-2002, 07:29 AM

Moii,

I think most of us would be curious to know what causes you to have "faith" in some invisible things (God or your example of gravity), but not other invisible things. I strongly suspect that there are many invisible things that you *don't* think exist and many invisible things that you *do* think exist. I'd like to know what criteria you employ to decide which invisible things exist and which don't.

For example, would you put the claim that there is an invisible camel in your bedroom on par with gravity? I'm pretty certain that you would not, despite both being "invisible"

Corona688 · 02-20-2002, 07:32 AM

I don't think this analogy works... You can't 'see' gravity, perhaps, but it's effects are obvious.

No faith is required to observe that all objects near the Earth's surface accelerate toward it at a constant 9.81m/s^2, or that planets orbit the sun in a manner consistent with the laws of gravity, or that gravity bends light in a manner consistent with the Law of Relativity. Science doesn't just 'assume' that gravity exists, it's done and is doing a helluva lot of work to figure out just what it is and how it works.

On the other hand, no effort is required to say that 'goddidit'. You can 'prove' anything you want based on any evidence at all - or none whatsoever - based on the 'fact' that 'god works in mysterious ways'.

Faith is belief without evidence.

moiii · 02-20-2002, 07:36 AM

I agree, "Christians" throughout history have given plenty of reasons not to be trusted and have operated in opposition to science. Yet, I think it is crucial to understand that in any organization, if you will, there are those who pervert teaching. I don't believe the things Christians do are always what Christ taught. In many cases, man has simply perverted what God intended for good. As a Christian I support science. In fact, science supports Biblical truths.

moiii · 02-20-2002, 07:37 AM

Draygomb

Atheists DO have faith.

Someone7 · 02-20-2002, 07:37 AM

Faith - Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.

Gravity is detectable. We can see its effects on objects, and we can feel it.

We are atheists because God is something that is not supported by logical proof or material evidence. There is no proof that God exists, and no material evidence to suggest he does. Hence, we do not believe in it.

I only believe things that are logically provable or there is good material evidence for, and I’m sure many others here are the same way.

moiii · 02-20-2002, 07:39 AM

Echo
I think you have missed my point.

moiii · 02-20-2002, 07:48 AM

Corona

The effects of God are obvious as well. If “Faith is belief without evidence”, then you are exhibiting faith right now. You are putting your faith in chance instead of God, which is your business, but everyone has faith in something.

02-20-2002, 07:13 AM	#1
moiii Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Work Posts: 23	FAITH Faith can be defined, as believing in that which you cannot see. Take gravity for example, you cannot see it, but you know it is there. In my opinion faith is the same way. No, I cannot see God, but I know he is there. I see how he works in the lives of those that believe and put their faith in him. In essence, all people have faith. Whether it is in God or not is irrelevant. The point is, we all have faith in something. Christians claim faith in God, atheists claim faith in the absence of God. Either way, both are exhibiting faith because neither side has all of the answers. I guess it is just a matter of where we ultimately decide to place our faith.

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02-20-2002, 07:25 AM	#2
Draygomb Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Harrisburg, Pa Posts: 3,251	Except, Atheists don't have Faith.

02-20-2002, 07:26 AM	#3
sbaii Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: big bad Deetroit Posts: 2,850	[ The point is, we all have faith in something. Christians claim faith in God, atheists claim faith in the absence of God. Either way, both are exhibiting faith because neither side has all of the answers. I guess it is just a matter of where we ultimately decide to place our faith.[/QB][/QUOTE] ================================================= To say I have faith in a negative is rather peculiar. As an atheist, I have faith in natural law and the human mind's capability to understand it and use it to improve the quality of our lives.You have to admit that the christian churches have done a lot to make people not trust them. They have stood in the way of scientific progress for the most part.

02-20-2002, 07:29 AM	#4
Echo Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Winter Park, Fl USA Posts: 411	Moii, I think most of us would be curious to know what causes you to have "faith" in some invisible things (God or your example of gravity), but not other invisible things. I strongly suspect that there are many invisible things that you don't think exist and many invisible things that you do think exist. I'd like to know what criteria you employ to decide which invisible things exist and which don't. For example, would you put the claim that there is an invisible camel in your bedroom on par with gravity? I'm pretty certain that you would not, despite both being "invisible"

02-20-2002, 07:32 AM	#5
Corona688 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Hiding from Julian ;) Posts: 5,368	I don't think this analogy works... You can't 'see' gravity, perhaps, but it's effects are obvious. No faith is required to observe that all objects near the Earth's surface accelerate toward it at a constant 9.81m/s^2, or that planets orbit the sun in a manner consistent with the laws of gravity, or that gravity bends light in a manner consistent with the Law of Relativity. Science doesn't just 'assume' that gravity exists, it's done and is doing a helluva lot of work to figure out just what it is and how it works. On the other hand, no effort is required to say that 'goddidit'. You can 'prove' anything you want based on any evidence at all - or none whatsoever - based on the 'fact' that 'god works in mysterious ways'. Faith is belief without evidence.

02-20-2002, 07:36 AM	#6
moiii Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Work Posts: 23	I agree, "Christians" throughout history have given plenty of reasons not to be trusted and have operated in opposition to science. Yet, I think it is crucial to understand that in any organization, if you will, there are those who pervert teaching. I don't believe the things Christians do are always what Christ taught. In many cases, man has simply perverted what God intended for good. As a Christian I support science. In fact, science supports Biblical truths.

02-20-2002, 07:37 AM	#7
moiii Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Work Posts: 23	Draygomb Atheists DO have faith.

02-20-2002, 07:37 AM	#8
Someone7 Banned Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Florida Posts: 376	Faith - Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. Gravity is detectable. We can see its effects on objects, and we can feel it. We are atheists because God is something that is not supported by logical proof or material evidence. There is no proof that God exists, and no material evidence to suggest he does. Hence, we do not believe in it. I only believe things that are logically provable or there is good material evidence for, and I’m sure many others here are the same way.

02-20-2002, 07:39 AM	#9
moiii Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Work Posts: 23	Echo I think you have missed my point.

02-20-2002, 07:48 AM	#10
moiii Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Work Posts: 23	Corona The effects of God are obvious as well. If “Faith is belief without evidence”, then you are exhibiting faith right now. You are putting your faith in chance instead of God, which is your business, but everyone has faith in something.

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