Bookman

Layman, you might consider an attribution from time to time.

<a href="http://answers.org/apologetics/hitquote.html" target="_blank">Pullquotes from Hitler's Secret Conversations</a>

Orpheous99

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Layman:
[QB]

What source do you have that the majority of Jews approved of what Hitler was doing to the Jews? [/b]

Where did I say anything remotely like that?

And you've gone far afield. We were discussing the use of state coercion to propogate the faith. Hiter did not use the state to promote Christianity.

He didn't have to since it already was the state.

Gurdur

Oi! Layman, you're making an overly broad statement yourself.

Orpheous99 does not equal SecWeb, and vice versa.

To the extent that you yourself, Layman, are a regular here, it could be argued that you are just as typical of SecWeb as Orpheous99.

And I'm a part of SecWeb too, and I'm none too sure I want to be confused with either of you, or various bland generalities.

[ February 19, 2002: Message edited by: Gurdur ]</p>

Orpheous99

Originally posted by Layman:

The usual Secular Web chest-thumping and insults.

Hardly.


That's really stupid position. The fact that Christian nations are typically politically and religiously tolerant does not mean that Christianity is dying.

Yes, it does mean this. And they are not Christian Nations, they are nations where the main religious belief is Christianity. Big difference. In order for them to be Christian Nations they would have to be theocraies.

So, do you have any real evidence that Christianity is dying? Or just your wishful thinking.

Its anual growth is only 2.3% and decreasing which is the same as the anual world population growth so Christianity is actaully stagnating now. Whereas the anual growth rate of Islam is 2.9% and increasing.


And what is your "real" source for the "real" number of Christians? And I agree that Islam is growing faster than Christianity is. That does not mean that Christianity is not experiencing strong growth in Africa and Asia. It is. Unless you have some sources to the contrary?

I researched several well-known encyclopedias which had covered a 20 year period. Starting around 1978 the world pop of Christians was around 1 billion Christians. 20 years later they were claiming around 2 billion. It took nearly 2000 years for Christianity to reach the 1 billion mark and that was during its period of greatest growth. During the same period, starting in 1978, Islam went from around 500 million to 1 billion and it is agreed that Islam is the fastests growing religious belief system in the world. The numbers for Christianity just don't add up.


Nah, I'm quite knowledgeable about history. Lenin and Stalin didn't just "happen" to be atheists. Atheism was an inherent part of the political theory they followed an attempted to impose on an unwilling world.

Wrong.

Communism certainly was and is an organized belief system and one of its tenants is atheism.

Wrong yet again, Communism is an economic system, like Capitalism. The belief system is socialism and Canada is primarily a socialistic country yet we aren't godless. In fact we don't even have the protection of separation of Church and State as the USA has.

This doesn't reflect on all atheists, just as the IRA doesn't reflect on all Catholics. But it does demonstrate that every country that has officially embraced atheism has been just as--if not more--brutal than any comparative theistic counterpart.

Wrong. If you do a per capita comparison between theistic and non-theistic governments you will see that theistic ones are far more brutal and evil. They make the non-theistic ones look like rank amatures. One example of many were the 3 centuries of The Burning Times in Europe and near the end in early America.


Sure I do. And atheism is a core component of communism.

Wrong. I was right, you don't have a clue.

To this day the communist party in China is officially atheistic. To be a member one must profess atheism and the party still persecutes theists of many varities, including Christians, Muslims, and Buddhists.

Irrelevant. BTW, Budhism is a non-theistic belief system. They are not god believers.

You have yet to articulate my ignorance of any "real world facts." And, I might add, Hitler sounds a lot more like you skeptics when you see his real views towards Christianity.

First you have to learn to tell the difference between offical history and real history. The victor writes the offical version. Most theists fall for that trap, but what can one expect since their entire belief system is based on the "offical" version.

[ February 19, 2002: Message edited by: Orpheous99 ]</p>

Panta Pei

Gott ist mit uns!


<a href="http://www.nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm" target="_blank">http://www.nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm</a>

Some pix are worth a thousand words

Orpheous99

Originally posted by Layman:

Balderdash. There is some editing and revising. Which certainly does not mean that they were all written at the same time 1500 years ago.

It is quite edited and revised in its context.

Only an idiot or an incredibly biased person would represent otherwise.

In other words the vast majority of Christians.

If you want to back up any of your other ignorant statements--based on other myths or important books being left out--then please do so.

The flood myth was taken from the Babylonians and was originally a story about immortality, and when the Hebrews were slaves of the Babylonians they "adopted" it and make it a story of immorality.

No, its the number used the the World Almanac and Adherents.com.

In the previous year they had a number of 1.5 billion at adher. I don't see how it could have went up by half a billion people in that short a period of time.

The USA is traditionally a Christian nation in the sense that the vast majority of people who lived here and voted here were Christians and expressed Christian values.

Irrelevant. The laws, and the like, are primarily secular and that is what counts. Plus, if it were truly a Christian Nation other religious beliefs would be forbidden since in a theocracy no other belief can be allowed to compete with the State's religion. In fact, in the USA, it would violate the guarantee of separation of Church and State to say that the country was a Christian Nation because this denotes favoritism towards one religious belief system. That is illegal in the USA to do so by the State.

Many of the founding fathers were Adherant Christians, but even more important is that most Americans were Christians. The fact remains that predominantly Christian countries have developed the most free political systems on the planet.

Wrong. many of them were deists.

The nations ruled by atheists, however, have been among the most repressive in history.

Again, you show your ignorance of history. It is nothing in comparison, on a per capita basis, to theistic rule all throughout history.

[ February 19, 2002: Message edited by: Orpheous99 ]</p>

Orpheous99

You are still quite irrelevant.

HRG

To Layman:

"Hitler's secret conversation" is based on a diary by Martin Baumann who was definitely against Christianity. Historians doubt its value as a source of Hitler's opinions.

Regards,
HRG.

Curt Epithet

deleted

[ February 19, 2002: Message edited by: Curt Epithet ]</p>

Curt Epithet

Deleted.

I agree with PITW below.

[ February 19, 2002: Message edited by: Curt Epithet ]</p>