Calzaer

I've mentioned elsewhere that I have a lot of unresolved anger directed towards Christianity. Well, one of my friends, who's studying to be a psychiatrist (cologist? The one that can't prescribe medicine) suggested that I try to let go through forgiveness.

Forgiveness?

Forgive who? God?

Forgive a being I'm not even entirely sure exists?

For what? For making followers who consistantly seem to live just to piss me off to hell and back?

Basically, her answer was "Yes." It was more complex than that, something about how keeping anger and holding a grudge is sort of like waiting for an apology that'll probably never come, and it keeps me connected to the source of my anger... meaning I'll never be rid of it. It's like, through my anger, God has a hold on me, even if he doesn't exist. She said that if I could work towards that forgiveness, it would put me light years ahead on my general emotional state when dealing with Christians.

I thought it sounded kind of.... well, strange. So I decided to ask more smart people. Thus, this thread. What do you think? Is this some psychobable tripe like "inner child", or could she be onto something?

trillian

Sounds like your not mad at "God" but at the followers who piss you off. Do the people who piss you off just happen to be Xn or do they say religious things that piss you off? What is the nature of your anger?

I have a sneaky suspicion that you dont have to apologize to anyone.

wildernesse

I don't think forgiveness means you are apologizing. The forgivee has something to apologize for, not the forgiver.

I don't think that other people make you angry. I think that anger and other reactions can be controlled. (Of course, I'm a control freak, so I like to think that.) So I think it's blaming someone else (theists) for your own actions (getting angry). If you think that other people can "make" you get angry, then you have given them some control over you. Maybe if you forgive them--or realize that you can react differently to a situation--etc., then you can better control your reactions.

My two psycho-babble cents.

--tibac

Jamie_L

This concept of "forgiveness" to let go of anger has been discussed before. And, I think in some ways, this is a non-traditional use of the word forgiveness.

What I think psychologists are really after when they talk like this is letting go of the anger and allowing yourself to not be angry. It's not saying what happened was okay. It's more like saying. I accept that this happened and I'm moving on. I will not let these past events control me and force to feel angry.

Which may not help much at all, but then, I'm just a guy on a discussion forum.

Jamie

HaysooChreesto!

Just to relate a little, before I was a fully realized atheist, before I had truly come to grips with the fact that there are no gods, I too harbored anger towards Xtianity and the people that believed in it. I used to go out of my way to start arguments and many times I came across as the pissed off individual I was.
It wasn't until I understood the reasons that others had faith-truly understood, that I was able to not feel resentment towards them and their religion anymore. By understanding my upbringing, pervasive Xtian culture, Xtian history, the history of various gods, devils, demons, angels, and the myriad myths surrounding them I was able to better understand myself and those that harbor faith. It took a long time, a lot of reading, and a lot of thinking.
Now, I usually don't bother to argue with those of faith unless I'm cornered and I don't harbor any resentment towards believers unless it potentially violates my rights and human life e.g., stem cell research, human cloning, etc.

And sometimes you just have to be pissed until you're not pissed anymore. It can be as simple as that.

philechat

Try to think "why am I angry with a non-existent being? Why must my mood be influenced by something I don't give a damn about?" Perhaps you can loose the resentment against this being gradually.

I went through the phase after I experienced intolerance from a theist friend of mine--I was hating God for no-god's sake. But the problem is that once you are obsessedly influenced by something that does not exist then you are "inventing" his existence without reason...and it is irrational.

Do not become the slave of a being you dislike, by becoming emotionally disturbed by the being. Disdain instead: rise above the petty non-existent being by ignoring it completely, as if it was beneath you and not worth your feelings.

mike_decock

I'm not a shrink, so take this is the layman's advice it is.

I think that "forgiveness" is the wrong term. You don't have anyone tangible to offer your forgiveness to.

I had a lot of resentment towards "God" and Christianity because of all the injustice in this world. Since there was no one for me to direct that anger towards, I finally realized that the anger was directed at ME. I was mad at myself because I didn't believe in God. I felt that I had failed to believe the "truth". I failed to have "faith".

After my deconversion, I had an epiphany. In the long run, as long as people have freedom, they will ultimately choose what makes them happy, or what they BELIEVE makes them happy. My parents and my brother CHOOSE to be Christians because that is what (they believe) gives them reason or purpose in life. I tried to believe but found no reason or purpose in life as a Christian and I have more reason and purpose in life as an atheist.

As incomprehensible for it may be for an atheist that Christians find joy in Christianity, Christians find it equally incomprehensible that atheists found greater joy in atheism. The belief or disbelief isn't inherently harmful, it is what the person chooses to do with that belief that is.

Once I came to the understanding, I was no longer angry at myself for being "of little faith" and I was no longer angry at people of faith for having it. Faith is a personality trait just like skepticism, pessimism or optimism. It's not a personality trait people consciously choose, it's the result of nature and nurture.

-Mike...

Biff the unclean

Freud once said "Psychoanalysis is of no use to the (delete expletive) Irish."
You have every reason to be angry. Tell that woman to mind her own business

Psychic

Surely your friend is a Psychologist, they are the ones who use terms like “letting go of the anger” (like you are willfully holding it) (or like it’s something than you can put on the table!) or other terms like “Intra-psychic energy!!” they surely can be hilarious! No offense to your friend of course.
I think Lamma’s view is the one most consistent with the scientific models available. Our whole emotions are a momentarily reflection of our long-term attitudes (and some negligible factors).
Consider this “No one can insult you unless you allow them to”
Forget about it. consider this example: imagine this situation when you are sitting in a bar drinking alone, this big guys comes to you and says “hey, get the hell out of here!” your reaction:
1) he has lots of muscles: FEAR. They guy is gonna hit me.
2) I’m such a loser that everybody insults me: DEPRESSION, you’ll go home a drink more.
3) that SOB he’s trying to pick a fight: ANGER. You’ll punch him in the nose.
4) He’s just drunk: no negative feelings, I’ll just ignore him.

So if you grasp my Idea by now, the solution to your anger from xtians lies in your attitude. If you perceive them as “stone-minded people trying to manipulate your life” (or whatever it is that bothers you about them) you’ll start feeling your anger. But if you perceive them as “poor victims of the culture! They are just unable to shake of the ideas school, parents and society place in their heads” it would make a lot of difference about how you react and the emotional state you’ll be in.
That’s called cognitive therapy BTW.
So find a cool place, relax your muscles, and work it out with yourself to change your attitude. I hope this is a practical solution for your problem.
Peace.



[QUOTE]originally posted by Biff the unclean
Freud once said "Psychoanalysis is of no use to the (delete expletive) Irish."
You have every reason to be angry. Tell that woman to mind her own business

although I completely agree with your point regarding Psychoanalysis
but for the second part, I would tell you that it is not a Right to be angry! rather it is a huge burden to be angry all the time. and it has some serious and dertrimental effects on health.

Biff the unclean

it is not a Right to be angry! rather it is a huge burden to be angry all the time

Sorry, I tend to write with an Irish accent. In American English I should have said that he had very "reason" to be angry.