Memento

As science advances, the importance of religion declines. To what extent is this an accurate claim? If the statement holds true, are there any examples or statistics to support your stand?

ps418

I dont think statement holds true in general. Though some particular religious teachings and beliefs have changed and will change because of scientific discoveries (amongst rational people, anyway), religion as a whole will not necessarily decrease in importance just because of the advance of science. One reason is simply that science cannot fulfill the emotional needs that religion can. That's my view anyway.

Patrick

Mageth

As science advances, the importance of religion declines.

All you have to do is look at the religious rhetoric being bandied about by the pols in the U.S. and elsewhere in the world, and in particular in association with 9/11 and the little war the U.S. just brought on Iraq, and you can see that this is not a very accurate claim.

Wyz_sub10

First off, welcome Memento.

Second, I'll play devil's advocate a bit and support Momento's statement in a general sense.

While it is true that religion still holds an important position, I do not think one can deny that religion has indeed fallen in correlation to sicentific advancement.

Of course, correlation and causation are two different things.

I would add, as well, that religion *was* science in centuries past, and government was inseparable in many ways from religious governence.

A decrease in religious influence or prevalence (even at the popular level) in the western world is obvious, IMO.

The advances made by science (acknowleged most by society in the forms of medicine and technology) are also obvious, IMO.

The OP implies a causal realtionship. I don't think this is an unreasonable argument, especialy when one looks at the relative lack of theism among those in the sciences.

As science becomes increasingly popularized, I think fundamental theism will, indeed, decline.

Looking at the US situation with Iraq and 9/11 is somewhat misleading. First, it is an exceptional situation being addressed by a fundamentalist leader. Second, it still pales completely when compared to past positions in western governments re: religion in political and social policies.

IOW, things still look "religion-heavy" at times, but the influence of religion is quite weak when compared to the influence of science, even in the mainstream.

ps418

I'm not an historian, but I don't see that either the influence or prevalence of religon is declining signficantly in my corner or the world (the US). Majorities or near-majorities here still believe in things like angels, demons, souls, the Devil, hell, and so on. Not to mention that 90% or so that believes in the existence of a god. For instance, about 75% of Americans think that angels exist and visit earth, and about 20% either claim to have seen one or know someone who has. Pretty pitiful progress report, I say (at least in this country)!

Patrick

Mageth

As science becomes increasingly popularized, I think fundamental theism will, indeed, decline.

I think the U.S. was as if not more "fundamentally" religious at the end of the 20th Century than at the end of the 19th Century.

Also, I think it's a bit simplistic to characterize this issue as simply science vs. religion. I would also throw into the mix the rise of technology, urbanization, affluence, the media (esp. television), telecommuncations, and globalization.

I think the drastic changes in the way we live our lives over the last century, resulting in feelings of isolation and insignificance for many, have resulted in many people questioning the "meaning" of life and seeking something to validate their lives. Science and technology are sterile and unsatisfying to many people, leading them to seek significance elsewhere. So while formal religions may have suffered from the rise of science, I think many if not most people are seeking spiritual significance in their lives. While many are turning away from formal religions, they are not necessarily abandoning spirituality/religion.

quartodeciman

A followup question: to what extent has science become the new high religion?

Consider that the overwhelming success of science has divided humankind into a priestly, scientifically-qualified upper class and a lay, mostly-unqualified lower class. Of course, many benefits accrue anyway. Both classes enjoy the the bounty of endless technical marvels. But the top of the high class, the fundamental theoreticians and experimenters get to set the agenda for the future. It is a novelty for religion that science looks forward to surprises.

Now, nothing restimulates an old regime as to be swept aside by a new one. There is strong resistance to something called "scientism" or "naturalism". But displaced religionists are consumers of science too. And one object really attracts their strong interest: the Big Bang cosmology. It is curious that one group soundly rejects this idea because of the long time scale, while another group fully endorses it, frozen in it's (approximately) 1980s form. There is always a cosmological argument opportunity in the back pocket.

Quart

Craig

Maybe the numbers of peope "with" religion (in every sense, I'm counting those that never ever go to church but still claim to be of a particular faith) is still high, but the degree of influence from religion has certainly fallen. Wyz_sub10 pointed this out above.

The role of religion, for most people, has taken a position of a general guide for life rather than a set of absolute rules that must be obeyed. Obviously for many fundies this statement is not true, but for the majority of people (in the US and Canada at least) religion is a background kind of thing.

Mageth

Maybe the numbers of peope "with" religion (in every sense, I'm counting those that never ever go to church but still claim to be of a particular faith) is still high, but the degree of influence from religion has certainly fallen. Wyz_sub10 pointed this out above.

Wyz also pointed out that the U.S. is currently ruled by a "fundamentalist leader." Look at the presidents of the 18th and 19th Century, and even the early 20th Century, and see how many you can find that were as fundamentally Christian as Dubya.

And this religiosity extends into Congress and, if Bush has his way with Judicial appointments, into the Judiciary as well.

I don't see how one can claim that the influence of religion has fallen that much in the U.S. in the light of the current Administration and Congress. It seems to be higher than ever right now.

Then consider the continuing controversies over the Pledge, the Ten Commandments, evolution vs. creation and prayer in the schools, abortion, etc. 100 years ago, there were few if no such religiously-fueled controversies in society. On at least some of these issues, the majority of Americans appear to be on the "religious" side. Religion seems to be on the minds of many people in this country.

The role of religion, for most people, has taken a position of a general guide for life rather than a set of absolute rules that must be obeyed.

I think that, if you looked at history, and particularly the 18th and 19th century, the same could be said. I think most people in the U.S. and elsewhere have typically viewed religion as a general guide for life rather than a set of absolute rules to follow.

Obviously for many fundies this statement is not true, but for the majority of people (in the US and Canada at least) religion is a background kind of thing.

Once again, I think that's always been the case for most people. However, Fundamentalism seems to be on the increase in the U.S., at least. Many if not most of the religious sects/denominations that would be considered Fundamentalist didn't even exist at the end of the 19th Century. Even some of the beliefs we label as "fundamental" were relatively rare, or at least no more prevalent than today, such as biblical literalism. The Creation Science movement is a relatively recent phenomenon, for example, which got rolling, I believe, in the 1970s.

Silent Acorns

As science advances, the importance of religion declines.

While there is an element of truth to this, I thinks it's far more complicated than that. I believe that the science vs. religion "debate" in the 20th century has left us a polarized society. There's a kind of cold war going on between religion and science. We even have peace activists who try to bring the two together. As science advances, the science camp will grow stronger, while those who find it cold and dehumanizing will become more committed to their faith. Currently, the majority of the population is wrestling with the rational appeal of science and the emotional appeal of religion.

Whether or not one side will win out will depend heavily on the extent that religion and science are incompatible with each other. Personally, I believe that they are incompatible, but I think that most people hope that they are not. And as long as most people do hold such hopes, advances in science will have a minor effect on the importance of religion.