Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Heathen Dawn · 10-25-2002, 05:57 AM

Be it a sniper in Maryland, or Chechens holding hostages in a Moscow theatre, or bombing in Bali, or suicide attacks in Israel, or the colossal 9/11 attack... where Islam is, terrorism is.

The Unholy Qur'an brings the exclusive truth of Islam and divides humanity in two: the Party of God (Muslims) and the Party of the Devil (Non-Muslims). Exclusivism and dualism, just like in Christianity, is the source of all trouble. Instead of recognizing that there can be many ways to God, and accepting the one who believes differently as legitimate, these religions demonize and dualize and devastate.

Quote:

And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it shall never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be among the lost.

Quote:

And do not think those who were killed in the path of God as dead, but alive, with their Lord, receiving sustenance.

[ October 25, 2002: Message edited by: Heathen Dawn ]

Tom Sawyer · 10-25-2002, 06:46 AM

Islam isn't any worse than Christianity in this regard. The only difference is that present-day Christian nations have more democratic and secular governments to rein in the religious zealots.

Historically, Christians engaged in as much barbarism in the name of their God as the Muslims do and have done. It's just that the whole "killing heathens in the name of God" thing isn't quite as popular these days as it used to be.

The muslim nations are a great case study for what our societies would be like if the fundys over here get their way.

Dargo · 10-25-2002, 07:33 AM

From my own experience, I'd have to say that the average fundamentalist Christians takes his or her religion a lot less seriously than the average practicing Muslim. Most Christians probably struggle to pray even once a day. Very few of them would willing to pray five days in public. Followers of Pat Robertson at least have the excuse that they have never seen a Bible-based government. Muslims have plenty of real world examples of what a nation under Allah looks like, yet somehow this has not undermined their faith.

john_v_h · 10-25-2002, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Heathen Dawn:
Instead of recognizing that there can be many ways to God, and accepting the one who believes differently as legitimate, these religions demonize and dualize and devastate.

It takes demons to demonize. As long as the faithful cling to their unassailable notions of the supernatural, they divide themselves from those who believe wrongly.

The Naked Mage · 10-25-2002, 10:12 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but by "faithful" and "those who believe wrongly", you mean "me and a few of my friends who know we are going to heaven" and "the 5.999 billion other hellbound barbarians on earth", respectively, yes?

john_v_h · 10-25-2002, 10:48 AM

You got me wrong. I don't value faith at all.

I should have put "wrongly" in quote marks. Actually, I'm one of the "hell-bound"!

hinduwoman · 10-25-2002, 07:13 PM

The problem with Islam is that it just don't let go. any bidah (innovation) is punishable by death; any criticism ditto; and everytime any of them do something bad there is no condemnation except we will pray for the victims.

Mendeh · 10-26-2002, 03:33 AM

So you're saying that modern Islam has remained more fundamentalist than modern Christianity because it has a better system of retention? It blocks off paths to religious reform more effectively than Christianity does?

Bree · 10-26-2002, 07:28 AM

I admire Muslims a good deal.

Unlike most Christians, they take their religion very seriously. I don't know of many Muslims that are half-assed about it - the great majority of them really know their Qu'ran, pray towards Mecca, observe their religious holidays...they're generally quite good with their follow-through.

gsx1138 · 10-26-2002, 07:45 AM

I also have some respect for Muslims. They are far less half assed and ignorant about their own religion. However, if any kind of fundy war broke out in this country I believe all those half assed christians would be right there with guns to carry out the Lords work.
I guess that is why I'm so frustrated with christians. They love to tell you that you're wrong for not believing in Jesus but their only proof or method of argument is, "you gotta have faith" or "well just because."
At least most Muslims can quote some passages out of their book of fairy tales.

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10-25-2002, 06:46 AM	#2
Tom Sawyer Talk Freethought Staff Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Toronto, eh Posts: 42,293	Islam isn't any worse than Christianity in this regard. The only difference is that present-day Christian nations have more democratic and secular governments to rein in the religious zealots. Historically, Christians engaged in as much barbarism in the name of their God as the Muslims do and have done. It's just that the whole "killing heathens in the name of God" thing isn't quite as popular these days as it used to be. The muslim nations are a great case study for what our societies would be like if the fundys over here get their way.

10-25-2002, 07:33 AM	#3
Dargo Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Texas Posts: 713	From my own experience, I'd have to say that the average fundamentalist Christians takes his or her religion a lot less seriously than the average practicing Muslim. Most Christians probably struggle to pray even once a day. Very few of them would willing to pray five days in public. Followers of Pat Robertson at least have the excuse that they have never seen a Bible-based government. Muslims have plenty of real world examples of what a nation under Allah looks like, yet somehow this has not undermined their faith.

10-25-2002, 10:12 AM	#5
The Naked Mage Veteran Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: The Execution State, USA Posts: 5,031	Correct me if I'm wrong, but by "faithful" and "those who believe wrongly", you mean "me and a few of my friends who know we are going to heaven" and "the 5.999 billion other hellbound barbarians on earth", respectively, yes?

10-25-2002, 10:48 AM	#6
john_v_h Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Francisco, California Posts: 1,760	You got me wrong. I don't value faith at all. I should have put "wrongly" in quote marks. Actually, I'm one of the "hell-bound"!

10-25-2002, 07:13 PM	#7
hinduwoman Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: India Posts: 6,977	The problem with Islam is that it just don't let go. any bidah (innovation) is punishable by death; any criticism ditto; and everytime any of them do something bad there is no condemnation except we will pray for the victims.

10-26-2002, 03:33 AM	#8
Mendeh Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: London, England Posts: 302	So you're saying that modern Islam has remained more fundamentalist than modern Christianity because it has a better system of retention? It blocks off paths to religious reform more effectively than Christianity does?

10-26-2002, 07:28 AM	#9
Bree Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Twin Cities, USA Posts: 3,197	I admire Muslims a good deal. Unlike most Christians, they take their religion very seriously. I don't know of many Muslims that are half-assed about it - the great majority of them really know their Qu'ran, pray towards Mecca, observe their religious holidays...they're generally quite good with their follow-through.

10-26-2002, 07:45 AM	#10
gsx1138 Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Bremerton, Washington Posts: 379	I also have some respect for Muslims. They are far less half assed and ignorant about their own religion. However, if any kind of fundy war broke out in this country I believe all those half assed christians would be right there with guns to carry out the Lords work. I guess that is why I'm so frustrated with christians. They love to tell you that you're wrong for not believing in Jesus but their only proof or method of argument is, "you gotta have faith" or "well just because." At least most Muslims can quote some passages out of their book of fairy tales.

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