sound-of-the-trumpet

“How do you know there is a God?” This is a good and practical question. Yet, I could equally ask, “How do you know that there isn’t a God?” Since, we can not be in all places all at the same time, from where we are now to the very furthest reaches of the universe, their is really no way to disprove the existence of God. Unless we can be every where at the same time to witness the absence of God’s existence, then we just can’t make the dogmatic claim that He is not real. Though, how can we say at all that God does exist? Since, we cannot be everywhere at the same time to witness God’s existence, then how pray tell do we know or prove that He really exist? Furthermore, we are not omniscient (i.e. all-knowing), thus, how can we know either way? It must be remembered that we believe in many things that we cannot see. For example: Can you see air? No! Yet, we breath it in every day and without it we would die. Can you see gravity? No! Yet, it keeps us stuck to the earth and is vital for our existence. Can you see television and radio waves? No! Yet, every day they entertain us (via. TV & Radio). Can you see magnetic current? No! Yet, we all probably have a magnet on our fridge holding important phone numbers and info, like our favorite takeout place. Have you ever seen your brain? No, certainly not!!! Yet, without it we could not function at all. Now, you may be saying, “Yes, I cannot see these things with my eyes, but there is evidence that they exist.” And I would agree, but not firsthand evidence. For instance: You may kill your neighbor and crack open his skull to find that he has a brain (do not try this at home kiddies), though that only proves that your neighbor has a brain. You still have to, to some degree through secondary evidence, BELIEVE that there is a brain in your head. So, it is with the existence of God. Though, you cannot see Him, there is evidence of His existence.

missus_gumby

s-o-t-t, do you believe in the mighty magical powers of non-believers? Well, you will when this thread is magically transported to GRD or ~E~.



Missus Gumby

Citrusponge

Can you show us some examples of this evidence?

mark9950

anymore because of how the christian God is portrayed by christians and the bible anomolies.

The christian God is described as omnipotent,omnipresent,omniwhatever.

Now if the christian god is omniwhatever and there are bible anomolies that is a big problem when it comes to bible credibility and whether it is 100% true and accurate(which is not).

pariah

LOL NICE SATIRE. I hope. Otherwise...you have committed so many strawmen and logical fallacies that...ugh.

I will try to do this...but if I fail someone else will crush your strawmen

First of all, it is irrelevant if you cannot prove the existance of a God. If you assert something, the burden of proof rests on YOU and YOU alone--we atheists are under NO obligation to prove that he does not exist. For example, can you prove beyond a doubt that leprechauns do not exist? No, you cannot. Is that a reason to beleive in leprechauns? Nope. I can't prove that vishnu doesn't exist...should I rush off to become a hindu?

In fact, why don't YOU prove that the hindu gods arent real, since you are obviously a monotheist you don't belelive in them...why don't you? You could make the SAME argument that you just made for the polytheistic religion of hinduism. So why arent you a hindu? Please answer this question. I'm VERY curious.

We "beleive" in many things we cannot see? Like what? I don't "beleive" in anything that requires "faith". Everything that I know is based off of cold, hard evidence. I would answer all your little BS questions but you will just tell me that I don't have "firsthand" evidence, so I will let someone else deal with that...

sound-of-the-trumpet

(A) The Evidence of Cause & Effect: There is a law called “Cause & Effect”. This is a law because it has been observed millions of times. It is also used in just about every area we can think of, from science, history, law enforcement, School, etc. Common sense demands a cause for every effect. Basically, the law of Cause & Effect states that for every effect there is a cause, which caused it, and that every effect of a cause cannot be greater tan what caused it. Henry M. Morris writes, “The most basic scientific principle, and the criterion that governs all human experience, is the law of causality. This law states that although one cause can have many effects, no effect can be either quantitatively grater than or qualitatively superior to its cause. An effect can never be grater - and, in fact, will always be less-than its cause.” (The Biblical Basis for Modern Science, Pg. 29). For example if you were to blow up a wall with a stick of dynamite (i.e. cause), you would only get a certain amount of explosive force (i.e. effect). If you wanted to increase the explosive force (i.e. effect), you would have to increase the amount of dynamite (i.e. cause). You could not get out of a stick of dynamite more than it would allow. Another way of stating this is that, “Every thing that has a beginning; has a beginner”. An even simpler understanding is that, “Something cannot come from nothing”. It is reasonable to say that in order for us to exist our planet has to exist. And in order for our planet to exist our solar system has to exist. Even still, in order for our solar system to exists the galaxy its in has to exist. Last but not least, in order for our galaxy to exist that universe has to exist. I present this logical chain-link in order to show that the cause of the universe is ultimately the cause of everything else in the chain. But how do we know that the universe was caused and is not eternal (i.e. for ever existing)? Several things suggest that the universe had a beginning. And as we said, all things with a beginning have a beginner.
First, we should mentioned our proposed options. (1.) The universe is eternal (i.e. that it has always existed). The First two Law’s of Thermodynamics discount this. The First Law states-“…that energy cannot be created or destroyed; it can only be transformed from one from into another.” and the Second Law states- “…that, in any change of energy from one form to another, some useful energy (energy available to do work) is lost.” (taken from, Karen Arms’s book, “Environmental Science”, Pg. 43). Thus, our only perceivable and conceivable course of thought is that the universe is not eternal, otherwise it would have already exhausted and labored all usable and workable energy. And hence, reached what is termed as “heat death”, the time when no further work could be done and every part of the universe would be the same temperature. (2.) The universes created itself. This is an outright insult to sound reasoning and basic logic. Because, for this to be true, then, the universe would need to exist before it came into existence. Self existing things cannot have a beginning or else they cease to be self existing. Therefore, the universe could not have possibly created itself. As you can see this is a logical absurdity. So this leaves us with only one option, (3.) the universe was created by an eternal Creator being. The only reasonable position to take is that the universe was placed here by a being much grater than itself. The Bible simply states at the very first, “In the beginning God created the heaven and earth.” (Genesis 1:1). The Bible begins with the undoubted belief that God exist. It does not question it at all. It states else where, “By the word of the Lord were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.” (Psalm 33:6), and “Hast thou not know? Hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? There is no searching of his understanding.” (Isaiah 40:28).

pariah

Ok...so who created God? And if God "always existed", isn't it just as likely that the same coulld be said of a universe w/o a God?

But as for science, modern cosmologists beleive that the universe did indeed have a beginning without god that indeed *gasp* obeys the laws of entropy. Read below:

And why arent you a hindu?

This article sums it up nicely...so I will just paste part of it rather than typing out half of "A brief history of time" by hand.


http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...h/atheism.html

sound-of-the-trumpet

...In fact, why don't YOU prove that the hindu gods arent real, since you are obviously a monotheist you don't belelive in them...why don't you? You could make the SAME argument that you just made for the polytheistic religion of hinduism. So why arent you a hindu? Please answer this question. I'm VERY curious. [B]...

Me being a hindu is abit off the subject don't you think? I am talking about the existance of a being above all beings who created the hevens and the earth and all that is there in. Now, who this being is, is a totaly diffrent question.

pariah

I think that its VERY relevant. You make the case that there is no evidence against God, and therefore he must exist. But what god? So it doesnt matter what religion you are, so long as you are in a religion that you can't prove the god doesnt exist? And what if your religion doesnt have a god...what if you are say...a taoist?

By the way, nice job of not answering the question...

Edit: BTW, I am curious as to the source of your previous post about entropy and such and such...did you write this yourself, or take it as an article from another site and post it here? If thats the case, will you please cite the original source?

sound-of-the-trumpet

(B) The Evidence of Design: Any design requires and even demands a designer. For, example, seeing art work we would assume that their was an artist, seeing a watch we would assume that their was a watchmaker, seeing a building we would assume that their was a builder etc. To imply or even out right iterate that something could, over time on its own, produce design is a bit far-fetched to reasonably receive. A case in point to illustrate, take for instance Mt. Rushmore. Now, say I told you that the four faces shown on the exterior of the Mt were produced by years-and-years of erosion. What would you think? Obviously, you would think I was quote-on-quote “smoking something”. For, any sane and sensible person would through basic rational, know that erosion could not have produce four of the most prominent presidents of the USA, but on the contrary, someone designed and detailed those faces there. Design is all around us from the universe to our solar system to our earth to the ecology of our planet to biology to cellular. Certainly, there is too much here to go over. But, take for example, the human cell. No one would deny the complex design present in a cell. Lewis Thomas said, "What is the earth most like?...It is most like a single cell." (In The Lives Of A Cell). It has been sated that, "Cells are the fabric of life. Even the most primitive cells are enormously complex structures that form the basic units of all livinf matter. All tissues and organs are composed of cells. In a human an estimated 60 trillion cells interact, each performing its specialized role in an organized community. In single-celled organisms all the functions of life are performed within the confines of one microscopic package. There is no life without cells" (Hickman, Cleveland, Larry Roberts, and Allan Larson, "Intergrated Principles of Zoology"). Therefor, if you have design you must have a designer. The Bible says, “For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.” (Hebrews 3:4).