Jayjay

19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Has anyone seen a christian propaganda referring to this verse as a battle cry or justification for violence/action against their perceived enemies? Trying to google it up, all I got was freethinking sites pointing out the "cruelty", but these accusations feel empty and void if there aren't any actual fundies using it.

BibleBelted

The fundies so far seem determined to ignore this verse. They are currently trying to draw a distinction between themselves and Islam by saying the New Testament is all lovey-dovey, new covenant stuff.

This verse contradicts that argument.

wildernesse

You might want to search for it in regards to the parable of the ten minas. It's the last verse in that parable. An interesting parable that almost parallels this is the parable of talents.

The general interpretation is that it refers to the return of Christ and his judgement of those who are wicked and didn't want him to rule over them. For individual Christians to use it as a battle cry would be for them to put themselves in Christ's position of judgement.

I have a hard time understanding this parable in the light of Christ being the lord in it. Mostly because he's described as a harsh ruler and unkind--not things that describe Jesus to me.

Thanks for bringing this verse up, I like looking up different commentaries and then thinking about them and how they relate to my belief.

--tibac

Jayjay

(Edited: I didn't see wildernesse's post above when first posting)

BibleBelted: That's not what I asked. Christian extremists use many bible verses to justify their hatred and violence, but I have never seen anyone use this one. If it was a legitimate example of Jesus' approval of violent acts, then some nutcase would use it as such.

wildernesse: Yes, I'm aware of the context, which in fact constitutes the reason why it's not as bad as it seems... christians with whom I've conversed on the issue have explained that it's okay because the slaying only happens when Jesus comes back, and even then it's his orders. So, that kind of puts a dent in the argument that Luke 19:27 promotes violence, unless one can demonstrate christians using it for that purpose.

[ November 25, 2002: Message edited by: Jayjay ]</p>

BibleBelted

Sorry if I misunderstood the point of the question. I was responding from the standpoint of what I see on christ-bot programming from out and out bigots like John Hagee, P. Robertson and Falwell to the more subtle ones like DJ Kennedy and James Dobson. I don't keep up with groups like Christian Identity because they are so vile I feel like bathing in disinfectant after 30 seconds of their material.

I do know that Bob Enyart's Shadowgov group brags about hundreds of New Testament passages in support of the death penalty. You might check there, but I don't think they like to give away their brilliant exegetical ramblings for free. Maybe our good friend Goriller will show up and give us the skinny. He's always anxious to promote killing for Jebus.