Rousseau_CHN

I was reading Hubble Head thread when I came upon this quotation:

In the Infidels, I thought I was a humanist because like Isaac I thought it was "intellectually unrespectable" to be an atheist.

Atheism, I thought then, was negative and therefore not much of a philosophy or a belief.

But then some thing happened, a close relative once asked if my daughter could accompany him to the mall. Call it paranoia or something, I said she couldn't fearing that she might be molested or something.

If I were a humanist, I should be ashamed of myself: condemning a person outright without the benefit of proof. But I wasn't. To this day, I know that what I did was right.

I love man but at arm's length. I love man but not with blind faith. I love man but will not hesitate to strike him when he errs.

I reject humanism in the same way I reject theism. Putting faith in God is nonsense. Putting faith in man is downright suicidal....it assumes that man is not capable of evil. It is outright naiveness and outright idiocy.

So I am now back at the negative philosophy: atheism. There is no afterlife, there is no heaven, there is no God. That is all I know and that is all I need to know.

And on the part about agnosticsm, I believe in that quotation: the hottest part of hell are reserved for those who, in the moment of great danger, mantained their neutrality.

Brahma's atheist

I too feel that atheism is somehow negative. You have to see the real world without some opiate-like deity to fall back on. there is no hope of happy afterlife. And you're right about humanism. You just need to watch the news to see the problems with that.
Atheism isn't really negative though. You just have to live your life and know that this is it, do the best you can and other moral boosting positivity.

Sabine Grant

Bonjour Rousseau.... do you think it is necessary to dissociate atheism from humanism? I have encountered in this forum atheists who are also humanists and I find that they have reached a level of harmony with themsleves and the rest of the world as a result.
Are you somehow intimidated by the humanity of mankind? ( which of course includes yours).
If we detach ourselves from intervening positively ( which I entrust humanistic beliefs to result in positive intervention) what is there to live for once you have also eliminated any spiritual faith?
Do you consider life to be a survival mode? atheism does not have to be an empty notion. It is simply a decision to not uphold any beliefs in any supernatural authority whatsoever. But mankind is vibrant with potential. It fluctuates, changes, grows and at times regresses.
I consider atheism to be a way to refocus on the potential of mankind. It does not have to be the intellectual oblivion projected by Sartre or Camus. ( in Sartre's case, the man lived a very productive life .... I suggest you read " Situations X" which is the product of Simone de Beauvoir's personal interview of the man she loved so dearly).

Luiseach

I've never seen 'atheism' described as a 'negative philosophy' before. I don't see atheism as a necessarily negative or a necessarily positive philosophy...as far as I'm concerned, it's the status quo.

pariah

i dont know much about humanism, basically only:

Humanists think that:

this world and this life are all we have;
we should try to live full and happy lives ourselves and, as part of this, make it easier for other people to do the same;
all situations and people deserve to be judged on their merits by standards of reason and humanity;
individuality and social cooperation are equally important.

wouldnt reason say that you dont have to let your daughter go if you think she may be molested? i mean for you to think that it must have been a strange request sounds reasonable to me--why would a male relative request that in the first place? to help him shop for shoes ? not something "normal" men do...how old was your daughter? obviously a minor, i would say its DEFINATLEY not normal behavior.

personally i dont see how the situation you have explained is unreasonable, and therefore against humanism.

can you elaborate on why you think it was unhumanist?

Biff the unclean

I knew Asimov, we were both members of New York Mensa, and sometimes we'd have a beer together. I never knew him to be the least bit wishy-washy about being an Atheist. He's the one who insisted that I always capitalize the "A."
Though he was a Humanist he was never stupid nor ever shy about speaking ill of people if he felt that they deserved it. He did live in the real world after all and didn't set unrealistic limitations on himself--except that stupid bola tie. God that thing was ridiculous.

pariah

haha, one of the funniest things hes said is telling kurt vonnegut to comfort people after he died by saying "dont worry, isaac is in a better place now"

Grad Student Humanist

Where is it written that humanists have to believe that everyone in the world is a moral and decent person?

That's ridiculous and I know of no humanist or humanist organization that advocates such a belief.

Llyricist

embarrassing to have an atheist using such a straw man...... unless it isn't really an atheist?

The Other Michael

Biff, that's a BOLO tie. At least they usually aren't strangling-tight as a regular tie, and they are quite acceptable in the cultural milieu they originated in.

Check out Positive Atheism (now hosted by IIDB, I'm please to say) for discussion on the topic (and many others).

cheers,
Michael