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Old 06-04-2001, 10:23 AM   #1
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Post Fallen, Promethean or Cyclical ?

One of the contrasts between worldviews are their perception of history.

The Abrahamic religions suggest that man has 'fallen' from a prior state of grace. Human history is a period of darkness compared to the time before 'The Fall'. Life is harder, nastier and more brutish than the 'creator' meant it to be.

The Hellenistic view is one of growth from a period of darkness. Mankind, perhaps with supernatural help, has a life that is better than the one the gods had in mind. History can be seen as a trajectory climbing out of a more miserable past.

Eastern philosophies suggest a cyclical history, which I understand to be revolving epochs of enlightenment and barbarity.

Personally, 'The Fall' has always struck me as far too harsh and pessimistic. I am much more sympathetic to the Promethean view of man 'progressing' away from our more base nature.

How, if at all, do these views of history reflect themselves in other philosophies?
 
Old 06-04-2001, 02:14 PM   #2
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I personally like the cyclic idea--- it makes 'sense' to me.

I had a place I was going with this, but I lost it with an emergency phone call...

ah, well...
maybe later...
 
Old 06-04-2001, 02:50 PM   #3
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Good question, but much depends on "the rest of the story." For example, the Christian view of history is redemptive. Yes, we are fallen, but God is acting through time to accomplish His purposes and bring His children into a state of grace. Thus, there is hope despite present circumstances.

The cyclical world-view strikes me as ever-so depressing. Round and round, we travel the Great Wheel, and whatever we accomplish, we eventually wind up right back where we started.

The flip side of the Promethean world-view, of course, is the Icarian perspective. Are we more like Prometheus, or Icarus? I guess it depends on which trends you choose to focus on. Eric Blair's vision of the future was hardly optimistic...
 
Old 06-04-2001, 03:39 PM   #4
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Personally, I prefer the Promethean view, in part because it also makes a good metaphor for the personal development of moral chararacter.
 
Old 06-04-2001, 05:27 PM   #5
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tuor:
The cyclical world-view strikes me as ever-so depressing. Round and round, we travel the Great Wheel, and whatever we accomplish, we eventually wind up right back where we started.

</font>
Then you miss the point of the Buddhist worldview. The idea is to "wake up", realize that life is transitory, and then remove oneself. The universe is considered to be everchanging with every passing moment. We are changing every moment. The "person" I was an hour ago is forever gone. It is not a matter of ending up where one started, but of everything "dying" every second and then becoming something else.

regards,

red dawn
 
Old 06-06-2001, 10:00 AM   #6
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by red dawn:
Then you miss the point of the Buddhist worldview. The idea is to "wake up", realize that life is transitory, and then remove oneself. The universe is considered to be everchanging with every passing moment. We are changing every moment. The "person" I was an hour ago is forever gone. It is not a matter of ending up where one started, but of everything "dying" every second and then becoming something else.

regards,

red dawn
</font>
Ditto!

 
Old 06-06-2001, 05:15 PM   #7
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by MadMordigan:
Eastern philosophies suggest a cyclical history, which I understand to be revolving epochs of enlightenment and barbarity.

Personally, 'The Fall' has always struck me as far too harsh and pessimistic. I am much more sympathetic to the Promethean view of man 'progressing' away from our more base nature.

How, if at all, do these views of history reflect themselves in other philosophies?
</font>
The Eastern cyclical concept (if you are refering to China) is based upon the five elements - Gold, wood, water, fire & earth. Which is actually the embodiment of the five rulers of the Age of Five Rulers (those five guys).
The concept is base upon that each element is being countered by one of them eg. gold is afraid of fire, fire afraid of water ... So when the time come for an element to be in prominent, there will be signs of it & a new rule/age will appear & thus the symbolic cyclical system.
This however is just one of many of the world views which arises at the same period of Spring/Autumn/Warring States when society as a whole is in chaos & give birth to five major views -
1 Confucianism - Kong Tze
Using Propriety & "Ren" (sorry this word is in chinese - don't know how to translate) as basis for society.
2 Taoism - Lao Tze
Individualistic refinement of self thru the "path" to restore one with nature. To become "Sian" - Immortal.
3 Moist - Mo Tze
Exaggerating the "powers" of the supernatural inorder to use religion as a form of "weapon" to spread peace. Pacifists.
4 "Lawyers" (direct translation)
Using law & order as defined by authority & killing off the concept of religions.
5 YingYangs (Five Elements)
The cyclical view by using the historical five rulers as example of change brought upon by the elements.

PS Will try to explain further if I remember - running out of time. Gotta go ...
 
 

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