Bobzammel

Simply put, Christianity flies in pretty much the face of what Judaism is all about. There is no dualism and what-not. The Jewish faith is one that is bound by Law and by patriotism, yet in Christianity-especially the epistles-this is twisted by the apostles to state that the law was a "curse", and that the real "Land of milk and honey" is heaven, not Israel. However anybody who carefully examines the Old Testament can clearly see that the law, for Judaism, was intended to be an eternal, perpetual covenant and so on. In 4 Macabees, one of the books censored by the Church, the characters would rather suffer than eat "unclean" foods--and then he is executed(4 Macabees deals with the opposition of a Jewish family to the Seculid king, who wants to destroy the Law). Then the NT comes along and suddenly the Law-including that of food-is over. Oops, I suppose they died for absolutely nothing!
Let's face it, the eradication of the Law has caused more problems for Christianity than it has without. Christians honestly have a topsy turvy and contradictory sense of morality-one passage discourages marriage, the other does not; one passage states working is okay, the other does not; One states the human body is evil; the other does not; and so on.
Now, I am not saying I believe in Judaism, but I personally feel that it "stands alone" as a faith and that Christianity really messed up the perception of it.

Jayhawker Soule

Judaism is as much about a People as about a theology. You are a Jew if your mother is a Jew. For a People to express "more ... opposition" to the world's dominant religion would be senseless and suicidal. On the other hand, there is vocal opposition to misrepresentations of Judaism on the one hand, and to so-called Messianic Judaism (e.g., Jews for Jesus) on the other.

Amos

Judaism and Catholicism are nearly identical in that both await the coming of Christ. Judaism awaits the first and Catholicism awaits the second. If and when Christ comes for the Jew it will be the end of Judism for this Jew and this same is true for the Catholic who will find the end of his own world in the second coming of Christ. Basically, the only difference is that Catholics can follow the example set by Jesus while Jews are more or less mesmerized by the prophetic message of the OT.

As for Christianity? Anything is possible there but should really be the end of either Catholicism or Judiasm. In other words, it is where they become one in the same image of man as Christ.

It is also true that both Catholicism and Judism are mystery religions wherein salvation is not consciously sought but is the unexpected result of the unfolding of this mystery.

Baidarka

The destruction of 2nd temple Judaism and the birth of Rabbinic Judaism and it’s schismatic sibling Christianity is a piece of history which has been veiled by Christian control over the historic record and Jewish inability to openly oppose Christian doctrines face to face.
The Messianic Jews who continued to follow Jesus after he was killed were probably mostly wiped out by the Romans in the “Jewish War”. There is a story from the time of Rabbi Akiva (maybe 120 CE) of a Jewish scholar who was dying from a snake bite. A Jewish Christian offered to cure him in the name of Jesus but another Jewish scholar intervened and refused the blasphemous treatment. Several years later Akiva recognized Bar Kochbar as the Messiah and encouraged all good Jews to help Bar Kochbar in his revolt against Rome. It seems that the Jewish followers of Jesus (The Ebonites?) refused to follow another Messiah and that they were persecuted during the revolt.
There is a story of an old rabbi who was caught in a Roman raid against the “Christian” sect. He was questioned and then set free. Akiva questioned the old man as to why he was mistaken for a follower of Jesus. After thinking for a while the Old Rabbi said that once while in a discussion with a Christian the Christian said something that he liked.
As the followers of Jesus were identified as heretics by Rabbinic Judaism they were excluded from the Synagogues. Prayers were added to the services that the followers of Jesus could not pronounce.
The anti-Semitism of the NT seems to be in part a consequence of this painful schism. Some scholars believe that Jesus’ the anti-Pharisee pronouncements were put into his mouth at this time.
I posted “The Pretenders” on this list a few days ago about another Jewish Schism caused by the ill fated Messianic Sabbatians. Gersholm Scholem records that the Sabbatian’s followed their Messiah even when he led them into breaking Jewish law! Even when he led them to put on the turban (to turn Turk).
Certainly the anti-sexual obsession with virginity (the immaculate conception) could not have come from the Jewish imagination and must have been a Greco/Roman innovation, but after reading Gersholm Scholem’s book (I finally finished) I am less sure about how much of Christian Supper-secessionist innovation comes from outside the Jewish tradition. It does seem that the Ebonites (Jewish Christians) came into conflict with the Greco/Roman Church over what they perceived to be blasphemous innovations by the Church.
For more on Christian/Jewish arguments I highly recommend Hyam Maccoby’s Judaism on Trial (Jewish-Christians Disputations in the Middle Ages). It is interesting that some of these arguments could be typed into this site and no one would think that they were out of place. Also check out DIALOGUE OF JUSTIN, PHILOSOPHER AND MARTYR, WITH TRYPHO, A JEW. Trypho may be a fictitious foil for Justin’s book but I suspect that his arguments give us a fairly accurate idea of what the Jewish argument were at that time
CHAP. X.--TRYPHO BLAMES THE CHRISTIANS FOR THIS ALONE--THE NON-OBSERVANCE OF THE LAW.
And when they ceased, I (Justin) again addressed them thus:--
"Is there any other matter, my friends, in which we are blamed, than this, that we live not after the law, and are not circumcised in the flesh as your forefathers were, and do not observe sabbaths as you do? Are our lives and customs also slandered among you? And I ask this: have you also believed concerning us, that we eat men; and that after the feast, having extinguished the lights, we engage in promiscuous concubinage? Or do you condemn us in this alone, that we adhere to such tenets, and believe in an opinion, untrue, as you think?"
"This is what we are amazed at," said Trypho, "but those things about which the multitude speak are not worthy of belief; for they are most repugnant to human nature. Moreover, I am aware that your precepts in the so-called Gospel are so wonderful and so great, that I suspect no one can keep them; for I have carefully read them. But this is what we are most at a loss about: that you, professing to be pious, and supposing yourselves better than others, are not in any particular separated from them, and do not alter your mode of living from the nations, in that you observe no festivals or sabbaths, and do not have the rite of circumcision; and further, resting your hopes on a man that was crucified, you yet expect to obtain some good thing from God, while you do not obey His commandments. Have you not read, that soul shall be cut off from his people who shall not have been circumcised on the eighth day? And this has been ordained for strangers and for slaves equally. But you, despising this covenant rashly, reject the consequent duties, and attempt to persuade yourselves that you know God, when, however, you perform none of those things which they do who fear God. If, therefore, you can defend yourself on these points, and make it manifest in what way you hope for anything whatsoever, even though you do not observe the law, this we would very gladly hear from you, and we shall make other similar investigations."

Baidarka

Amos
I must admit that I do enjoy your inane metaphoric prose poems, but you have gone too deep into the muck this time by making statements out of thin air. The Messiah in Judaism could not be called “Christ”. The Jewish concept of Messiah has nothing what so ever to do with the Christian concept of a GOD/MAN. The Jewish concept is as foolish as the Christian concept but it is a this world concept. The Messiah is a worldly King appointed by God. Of course one has to distinguish between the Messiah ben Joseph who must come first and the Messiah ben David.
The Messiah does not end Judaism or end the world. He just leads all the Jews back to Israel and raises the righteous dead.
On second thought this stuff is so ridiculous that Amos might as well be right.

Clarice O'C

Hello Bob,

Christianity makes a mess wherever it is found. What I like about Judaism is that it's not an evangelizing and proselytizing-type of faith. But then when Christians convert Jews who become Messianic Jews, same mess.

Best,
Clarice

Amos

Jesus worshippers are always a problem whether they be protestant, Catholic or Jew. Interesting here is that you will never see "Messianic Jews" converting to Catholicism but you will find that "Charismatic Catholics" can identitfy with Messianic Jews in that both of them are Jesus worshippers-- which at one time was the cause for the Reformation that separated the various protestant sects from the Catholic Church. This indicates that Jesus worshippers are indeed the problem.

-DM-

See: The Jew and the Christian Missionary: A Jewish Response To Missionary Christianity, by Gerald Sigal, which, although out of stock at Amazon, can be found used at times.

-Don-

Apikorus

Jesus is irrelevant to Judaism.

Clarice O'C

Hello,

Out of stock, yes. We can take a look at the reader reviews which bring up some good points:

"This book is the handiest quick reference for dispelling pro-Jesus arguments. Gets down to the point, but has lots of in depth analysis too. A must have for Jews in general and particularly useful for those who enjoy being 'counter-missionaries.' Get it."

"Sigal's book is the most comprehensive examination to date of Christian claims that the Hebrew Bible is full of prophecies about Jesus. Every major 'prooftext' is analyzed in light of context, translation and interpretation and contrasted with the traditional Jewish interpretation. Of particular value is that Sigal is not merely an apologist, attempting to refute Christian claims vis-a-vis the Jewish scriptures. In the second part of the book Sigal moves from a defensive postition to examine problems in the New Testament accounts, an approach not often found among Jewish writers on the subject.

"Though he brings with him with a healthy dose of righteous indignation at the way Christian missionaries have expropriated and distorted Jewish symbols and concepts, Sigal writes with great warmth and considerable wit.

"All in all, this is the best book in English on the subject."

Perhaps true Jews don't express more opposition to Christianity because they are more secure in their faith. After all, their YHWH is more believable than Jesus, half-man and half-god even though YHWH is a "he."

Best wishes,
Clarice