fwh

Is anyone aware of myths--ancient or otherwise;disregarding the modern scientific view for the moment--which portray man's ascent from unconciousness to conciousness, from ape to man, from matter to mind?

davidH

None that I am aware of.
You mite try looking into some of the ancient Hindu or far eastern myths if you can find any sites on them, but I know of none.

fwh

Thanks davidH:

To my knowledge, Oriental conceptions of the structure of human existence speak of the descent into temporality and of the need to know death before gaining access to the world of the Spirit. I was more concerned about the so-called "primitive" myths which may be pertinent. Thanks

Luiseach

Don't the aboriginal peoples of Australia and New Zealand have a myth about 'Dreamtime'....the 'time before time began'? I wonder if this would qualify as one of the mythologies you're interested in.

jpbrooks

Possibly. But generally Dreamtime Mythology views all life forms as important from the standpoint of divinity. So its stories/accounts of "creation" (i.e., origins) are not likely to favor apes over other species. (Though I could be wrong. If so, I stand corrected.)

fwh

Luiseach

Thanks! I have been searching at length myths of the Aboriginal Australians and have yet to find anything appropriate to my enquires.

Amos

Not too likely from matter to mind because mind precedes matter.

From ape to man is a little crude but Gen.1, 2 and 3 show the intricate details that make evolution possible and maybe that is what you are looking for.

"Dreamtime" can make reference to the involutionay period because dreaming is impossible in the evolutionary period where time-as-such ends and eternal time begins.

fwh

You said:

"Not too likely from matter to mind because mind precedes matter."

Me:

Certainly, the the emphasis of myths point to that conclusion. However, I doubt many from the modern point of view would agree. We have here the battle of the monisms which is what my research is about. I would be interested in why you made the statement I just quoted. Is it from an empirical way of perceiving the world? Please clarify.

Amos

That's why I wrote it! It really is no battle because both are looking at the same evidence. To recognize intelligence within existence would lead to the conclusion that "essence precedes existence" and to say that there is no intelligence in nature is really saying that we don't have any intelligence ourself. Without intelligence the idea of a free will could not enter our mind and it is because we have this idea of free will that we pretend to be free and because we pretend to be free we are taking charge of our destiny.

Since the difference between "pretending to be free" and "to truly be free" is only matter of "realization" the end result is the same except that in the first instance we are creating our destiny without really knowing where were are going while in the second instance we know exactly where we are going.

Osiris

Well you won't find the word consciousness in myths, but you will find words relating to our present day definition of it. Also, you may find evidence of the origin of consciousness in these myths if you believe that it wasn't always something humans had.

If you believe that consciousness is the result of the failing of the Gods, then look no further than Tukulti-Minurta I, tyrant of Assyria. He writes "my god has forsaken me."

Looking at the more typical writings we associate with mythology, in the Illiad you will find seven words: thumos, phrenes, noos, psyche, kradie, ker and etor. The closest would be psyche which is used in 5:295, "When a spear strikes the heart of a warrior his psyche dissolves." But I believe this source or mythology was written by unconscious human beings. Here we have a bunch of disconnected parts of what we today call consciousness, mainly from the external view of human behavior.

But if you consider the Bible to be mythology, there are mental struggles with subjectivity in Book I of Samuel. Here Samuel has trouble hearing God give him direction. He seems to have to think on his own when this happens. He puts the burden of God on his shoulders. I believe this to be an example of how man became god (my Daniel Quinn perspective creeping through), and consciousness took hold.

This is all from Julian Jaynes' work, "The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind."