Freethought & Rationalism Archive

agapeo · 09-27-2002, 08:20 PM

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Your example Helen is flawed.

And yours is better?

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One does not start by calling himself an atheist and then suddenly realizing that this forces him not to believe in God as a dogma.

So far so so, but . . .

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One does not believe in God first and as a consequence calls himself atheist because that is what atheist means.

What the heck does this mean? Unless I'm mistaken one who believes in a deity is a theist, not an atheist.

Starboy · 09-27-2002, 08:31 PM

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Originally posted by agapeo:


How does one reachfrustration from joy? And how can you know that you don't know if you don't know what you don't know?

agapeo, when we are little learning what we do not know is both a challenge and a joy. As we grow older we realize that there is so much to learn and so little time and that is the frustration. Then for some there comes a time when they realize how little is known and how great must be the knowledge that is unknown.

But then agapeo, unlike you I do not know everything.

Starboy

galiel · 09-27-2002, 08:33 PM

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Originally posted by Amos:


Your whole post is in flux to me.

You must repair your flux capacitor.

galiel · 09-27-2002, 08:35 PM

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Originally posted by Amos:


Helen don't be offended by some peoples opinion of freethinker because there are those who's opinion is swayed by every convincing argument which only indicates that they really do not know anything first-hand but juggle their thoughts between second-hand data and therefore are free to think without prior convictions.

WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU PEOPLE? HAVE YOU NO COMPASSION?

DON'T JUST STAND THERE, GET THE MAN SOME PUNCUATION!

galiel · 09-27-2002, 08:37 PM

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Originally posted by Starboy:
galiel, your mastery of double speak is most impresive.

I would thank you, but I am in flux.

agapeo · 09-27-2002, 08:44 PM

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Maybe I am reading too much into the replies.

That's a possibility. I'll have to think about it.

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Historically a freethinker has been a euphemism for atheist. One of the most notable American atheists was Mark Twain. He constantly referred to himself as a freethinker.

Ah! Appeal to authority. How nice.

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It is commonly accepted in American culture that freethinker == atheist.

Last time I check there are quite a few religious folks in America. Most of the leaders of America are religious. My, my we're in trouble aren't we when one stops to think that this Country is being governed by non-freethinkers. Yikes!

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Apparently what is present here is a small group of Christians that wish to think of themselves as freethinkers.

Yeah, and the fact that they might is indicative of them being freethinkers.

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If you were a deist then I might be able to accept it,

And this is called freethinking?

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to be a Christian you must accept JC as your savior and accept that he died for your sins.

True. But one has to think about it first before deciding.

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As far as I am aware, this is not negotiable and thus is dogma.

True. The to accept JC as your savior is dogma but to do so requires one to think about it.

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This one thing alone precludes a Christian from being a freethinker.

I'll have to think about this one.

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I am fascinated by this desire of Christians to be thought of as freethinkers.

Well, to be honest about it -- I never gave it much thought.

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It reveals to me an unspoken dissatisfaction with the Christian faith.

Thanks for pointing out to me that I have a deep-seated dissatisfaction with my faith because it won't allow me to freely think. Now that we've cleared that up I have nothing left to be dissatisfied with except that I now have to accept your word on faith since I have no evidence that what you say is true.

agapeo · 09-27-2002, 08:46 PM

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Originally posted by Starboy:


agapeo, when we are little learning what we do not know is both a challenge and a joy. As we grow older we realize that there is so much to learn and so little time and that is the frustration. Then for some there comes a time when they realize how little is known and how great must be the knowledge that is unknown.

But then agapeo, unlike you I do not know everything.

Starboy

Well if I knew everything as you assert then why would I bother asking the question?

Edited to add:
As one grows older they realize that they can't possibly know everything. So what's to get frustrated over?

[ September 27, 2002: Message edited by: agapeo ]

09-27-2002, 08:50 PM

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Originally posted by galiel:


DON'T JUST STAND THERE, GET THE MAN SOME PUNCUATION!

Some what?

Starboy · 09-27-2002, 08:54 PM

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Originally posted by agapeo:

Well if I knew everything as you assert then why would I bother asking the question?

Edited to add:
As one grows older they realize that they can't possibly know everything. So what's to get frustrated over?

[ September 27, 2002: Message edited by: agapeo ]

When you grow up you will figure it out.

Starboy

agapeo · 09-27-2002, 09:02 PM

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Originally posted by Starboy:


When you grow up you will figure it out.

Starboy

About the only thing I'm interested in figuring out as I grow older is how to not forget what I already know. Now that's a challenge.

But wait till ya get to be my age and you'll know what I mean.

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