sweep

can anyone help me on this: How do we select information from the brain- assuming that information is stored in the brain.

If my brain were a warehouse then there would be lots of tiny robots shuffling about picking up boxes and carrying them about. But it isn't, and it is a crap analogy so don't remind me.

Apart from reminders i can go 'inside' (because i will, or i will because i can?) and choose any memory i want:

'ooh, there's that girl in the tight dress from 12 years ago.'

'aha! rob, telling me he's going to beat me up.'

'me dancing in an underground rave. wickid!'

seriously though, i do request some input <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

DRFseven

You could read ex-creationist's post on <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=50&t=000501&p=6" target="_blank">this page</a> in the "Explanation for Choosing" thread.

I would say that, basically, your sensory cells convey external information to brain cells. Picking up external signals CHANGES the sensory cells, and all the cells up the line that are involved in that transaction.All the changes trigger other cellular changes (including memory associations) that result in consciousness and motivational direction. We're like things that eat food and experience, which keeps us going, but the exerience we eat changes us in ways that cause us to change our experience. It makes a loop.

[ August 13, 2002: Message edited by: DRFseven ]</p>

sweep

so that is why we have little or no will in the sleep state. Our sensory cells become almost redundant leaving the brain cells to 'have a play'. I like those funny shows.

Ierrellus

sweet as a nut,

The dream stage of sleep corresponds with a shutting down of the neurotransmitters serotonin and norepinephrine while acetylcholine spews from the brain base. The P.E.T scan of this condition
is somethimg like fireworks coming from the back of the brain. Since serotonin and norepinephrine work to create a rational narrative via connective loops to the cortex, the awareness of a dream becomes guesswork.
Is this too clinical for a romanticistic mind?

Ierrellus
PAX

tronvillain

sweet as a nut:
It is not clear that we do select information from the brain. Indeed, it seems rather unlikely to me. I would imagine something like this: sensory input, such as someone asking for your phone number, results in a chain reaction of neural activity, cascading from the auditory processing region of your brain down various pathways, one of which leads to the pathways created by your phone number, which in turn produces a chain reaction leading to your speach centre, eventually resulting in you telling them.

Ah, but can you choose any memory you want or are they simply remembered? If you simply ask yourself, "What can I remember?" you may be setting up a loop of relatively random chain neural activity and the chain reactions could produce almost any memory.

sweep

thanks for the input, ierrellus.

not too clinical, no. Perhaps we'll have to wait a hundred years for questions of this kind to be explored. I'm not sure about how much further neuro-science has travelled in recent years. i also don't want to pretend that i know much about the brain in a wider context.

I do have some knowledge about long term potentiation, beta adrenaline (epinephrine) habituation, etc, which i use to try and explain memory formation and the like, but it isn't appropriate here except as a background marker for future reference.

Was the pet scan used on humans and, if so, wouldn't it be dangerous attaching radioactive particles to glucose then passing them into the human body?

sweep

tron, the information you present is useful but it doesn't address all the examples in my initial post.

i do think that remembering is a selective process, and studies have shown that eyewitness reports can be heavily influenced by sources after the fact (basic eysenck, cognitive text, as much as i hate to cite that book). i don't like the use of the word random too&gt;&gt; to me random is another way of saying that we can't measure an occurence.

so, i do agree that we only re-construct (if you like) events and that those impressions are highly abstract. In that you are correct to point out that i cannot choose any memory, and that also brings to mind the fact that a smell or sound can bring to light information that i had (dare i say) lost to my conscious mind.

further, repetition of an event in the mind increase the chances of that memory being accessible. During novel and/or stressful situations beta adrenaline enhances our capacity for memory formation and, also, our perception of 'time'.

So far my initial question has not been answered fully, probably more to ignorance on my part than anything, yet if i think a little more i see that i can't actually will a memory but it is more the result of 'what i come across first' and 'a chain of associations'. Perhaps consciousness is more of an illusion than i first thought.

again, thanks to all brilliant likeminded peoples of present and future posting. I hope i can also be of assistance as far as my current scope will allow.

now, my body calls, and the neocortex bows down: "feed me!" - "yes, boss!"

snatchbalance

Sweet as a nut,

I have found that i can retrive memories on the basis of subject and date on afairly reliable basis.

something like: Injuries to my hand, for instance. I recall te mos recent injury, and then look for the previous one, and the ones previous to that, and so on.

Of course, since this is all happening on a subjective basis, I have no way to confirm the accuracy of this method; unless to wanted to try to confirm it by finding doctor records and such. I have found that trying to utilise other people's memories for confirmation to be very frustrating.

I think i read a recent article about molecular traces in neurons that are related to actuall memories, but my memory fails me at the moment.

sb

sweep

that's alright, if you can rely on it then i don't see a problem. i don't understand why you keep injuring your hand. probably from martial arts or bashing your hand into a wall after someone totally ignores what you have to say.

well, your experiences seem to support my thoughts as to the role of beta adrenaline in stressful situations. Anyone know something on Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. Well, if you have a bad accident or witness something disturbing the brain can get stuck. Some people have real trouble dealing with it and get flashbacks. I saw some bad images a few years back and i could actually feel my brain change- wasn't nice. now i am desensitised to images- hope i don't get involved in anything nasty. *shudder*

this instance wasn't too bad but&gt;&gt; i recall some kid smashing a brick into my face, and a lot of blood. Won't forget it- very vivid. Don't like blood much, and wonder why it makes me rush so much when i see it flowing. I have passed out twice when subjecting myself to bloody images (landed in the washing basket): i lose my vision and my blood pressure goes really high.

who needs drugs when the adrenaline goes mad-whoosh! way powerful brain buster.

tronvillain

sweet as a nut:
Exactly what examples are you referring to? Perhaps these ones: "ooh, there's that girl in the tight dress from 12 years ago.", "aha! rob, telling me he's going to beat me up." and "me dancing in an underground rave. wickid!" I am afraid I do not see what about them you wish addressed.


Well, most of our sensory input fails to have a significant long term effect on our neural pathways, and later patterns can replace or alter earlier patterns.

The neural pathways shaped by certain events are stimulated and thus contribute the endless cascade of neural actibity that is our minds. We do not re-construct events, we only model them. Also, you cannot choose any memory - you do not have a complete list to choose from. Oh, you may have few items that come instantly to mind when you ask yourself "What are my memories" by your complete collection is not catalogued.


A specific patterns is strengthened (though perhaps altered) by repeated activation, and beta adrenaline stimulated pattern formation which alters perception of time.

Precisely, though I fail to see how it would make consciousness an illusion.