dunadan

Here is a question. Suppose you meet someone, and come over time to realize that this person is the 'one' for you, someone you wish to spend your life with, in every way. I am talking here of a transcendent love, where a physical relationhip is not an objective but rather a natural course of action arising from your desire to be close to this person.

In this situation, when you realize you 'love' this person totally, would you be able to look past your previous gender bias? If you were previously gay, would you enter a hetero relationship, or if you were hetero, would you enter a gay relationship? Would you have a choice?

The Other Michael

Hi dunadan,

Can you try and elaborate on your OP and how you'd like to tie the discussion into moral foundations and principles?

At this point it is sounding a bit more like material for Miscellaneous Discussions, but I'm willing to give you a shot at keeping it here in MF&P.

cheers,
Michael
MF&P Moderator (Maximus)

Sarpedon

I don't quite understand. Are you suggesting that love and sexuality are inextricalbly tied? Are you suggesting that it is possible to physically love a person who is the opposite gender of your "usual" sexual preference? Many cultures (not mine, unfortunately) have an institution of "swearing brotherhood, (or sisterhood)" where people become inextricably linked in love, but not sexuality. My favorite example being the three brothers of the three kingdoms period in China, Lui Pei, Kuan Yu, and Chang Fei.

I think your question is irrelevant. Love and sexuality are not the same thing. There is no reason to think that you have to be physically intimate with someone to love them completely. Also, the idea that there is only one person to love is silly. In such a case, someone could love his "sworn brother" and also love his wife, even if he loves his brother more, it cannot be said that he can't also love his wife.

philechat

I supposed you misunderstood the OP. He is asking whether "a physical relationship" (sexual relationship) is possible with a person whose gender conflicts with your sexual orientation, simply because you love the person "spiritually"? Would one be able to receive sexually a person whose gender does not fit one's sexual orientations?

I would suppose so--in the time homosexual relationships were looked down upon, many homosexual men became married to women, with (often) disasterous results (as in the case of Tchaikovsky, Verlaine, and maybe Wilde). Does the existence of heterosexual marriage made them bisexual in fact? I don't think so. But it was possible to be in a relationship with someone we have no (sexual) attraction to...as evidenced in millions of arranged marriage relationships, homosexual men and women in hetero marriage, marriage for parental satisfaction and money, etc. The health effects of such relationships would be another topic of discussion altogether.

Badfish

The Christian God doesn't think it's ok.

philechat

huh? This would not convince any non-Christians over here. Please clarify?

dunadan

The Other Michael,

We had a pretty involved discussion in #infidelchat about where to post this (we thought about putting it in Philosophy also.) Really though, in my culture, and I think most cultures, we are taught that there is a 'right' sexuality and a 'wrong' sexuality, and even if we go against the norm, there is often pressure to conform to THAT alternative.

Since it seems in this light that gender preference is considered a 'morality' question, we thought this would be a good place to see thinks they would break with their gender preference (and societal EXPECTATIONS) for a chance at personal and spritual fulfillment with a true love.

Plus we thought we'd get a better discussion here.

dunadan

Sarpedon This is about realizing (perhaps surprisingly) that you have deep romantic feelings (including 'sexual') for someone not of your 'normal' gender preference.

philechat, you are on track with what I am talking about. How would you confront your own previous perceptions of gender preference when faced with this new situation? Would you be willing to consider a fundamental shift in your prior notion of gender preference to be with this 'right' person?

Badfish, please read the post more carefully. This proposition is equally applicable to people who consider themselves gay. It is more a question of one's personal willingness to examine their own predefined and often deeply rooted preferences in light of a new and potentially exciting situation. I think it is safe to assume we know where you stand.

happyboy

my best friend is a woman. i am a gay man. while i love this friend with every fiber of my being, and consider her the best thing that's ever happened to me, i am NOT physically attracted to her, nor am i romantically in love with her.

i am a gay man. i am physically attracted to other men. i fall in love with other men. while i am capable of feeling love for women, it's the "friendship" and "sibling" bonds of love.

happyboy

Zulu

Theoretically: yes.

Practically: no.

-Zulu