long winded fool

If my loved one decides that he or she would rather live away from me than with me, do you think if I really love them I ought to force them to live with me, or allow them to go where they want to go? If Hell is a place where you can get away from God, (and it is. Firey torment is a colorful way for those who have seen the Kingdom of Heaven and been in the presence of God to describe the absence of God) and someone chooses to be absent from God, why feel sorry for them? Those in the kingdom of Heaven might not understand why anyone would choose to be absent from God when presented with the 'Good News,' but I don't think they'd lament endlessly over the choices of others. People in Hell are exactly where they want to be. Away from God. One ought to be happy for these people. They're getting everything they've always wanted. The only difference is: everything they've always wanted is the equivalent of torture when compared to the Kingdom of Heaven.

Darth Dane

What if it's just nothing? No conscience, no memory, no awareness, ie oblivion.

Ignorance is Bliss.

Basically we're altering the meaning of existence and reality as we know them. Once you step down that road, how do you define anything? How do we differentiate oblivion from non-existence or heaven?

"Do not believe anything because it is said by an authority, or if it is said to come from angels, or from Gods, or from an inspired source. Believe it only if you have explored it in your own heart and mind and body and found it to be true. Work out your own path, through diligence.
Guatama Buddha"

How to express that which cannot be expressed. As Tozan said: "When all is understood, words are forgotten." or in Osho's words:"Truth is known in silence. And when truth is known through silence, it can be expressed only through silence."

Talking is silver, silence is Gold?

"Truth is like a multifaceted diamond. Each human being holds a facet of truth within the human experience. All humans collectively create a truth that embraces each of the individual truths on the planet. No one truth is superior to another, and all truths are neccessary to make up the collective whole."

The truth cannot be said, but you can be lead to the point from where you can see it. OSHO


Should any one say that he does not wish to lead the holy life under the Blessed One, unless the Blessed One first tells him whether the world is eternal or temporal, finite or infinite: whether the life-principle is identical with the body, or something different; whether the Perfect One continues after death, etc.-such a one would die ere the Perfect One could tell him all this.

It is as if a man were pierced by a poisoned arrow and his friends, companions or near relations should send for a surgeon; but that man should say: `I will not have this arrow pulled out, until I know, who the man is that has wounded me: whether he is a noble man, a priest, a tradesman, or a servant'; or: `what his name is, and to what family he belongs'; or: `whether he is tall, or short, or of medium height'. Truly, such a man would die ere he could adequately learn all this.


Therefore, the man who seeks his own welfare, should pull out this arrow-this arrow of lamentation, pain, and sorrow.


For, whether the theory exists, or whether it does not exist, that the world is eternal, or temporal, or finite or infinite-yet certainly, there exists birth, there exists decay, there exist death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief, and despair, the extinction of which, attainable even in this present life, I make known unto you.


Buddha



I know it was a lot of quotes, but htey shed some interesting light on our discussion I think.





DD - Love Spliff

Cojana

For heaven and hell to exist side by side, the powers that be must be Evil, an all good power would be invisurated by allowing Evil to exist, all good no more, only an Evil power would and could allow good to florish just so that Evil could prosecute it,,..having said that, my real belief about heaven and hell are as follows,ie, heaven and paradise are here on earth while one are alive,and hell are one place no one can escape, we all go to hell in the end.for Hell are Death,kaput,!!:banghead:

abe smith

... pontificators here at EyeEye wd stop multiplying the damned MISquotation, .....
IGNORANCE IS *NOT* BLISS! and for the benefit of alla youse who think your assertion that it IS is so damn witty, the sentence you take such pleasure in MISquoting runs

"Where ignorance is bliss, tis folly to be wise."
arrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhh!

Darth Dane

.. pontificators here at EyeEye wd stop multiplying the damned MISquotation, .....
IGNORANCE IS *NOT* BLISS! and for the benefit of alla youse who think your assertion that it IS is so damn witty, the sentence you take such pleasure in MISquoting runs

"Where ignorance is bliss, tis folly to be wise."
arrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhh!

LOL, I didn't mean to get you all rauled up about it, but I'll throw in another for good measure: What you don't know won't hurt you"

Someone asked if ignorance is bliss, what does that make enlightenment?

So if ignorance is bliss, our less than 100% knowledge that humans have, is painfull because we don't Know everything yet, like "why are we born, why is there evil" and so on. Enlightenment must be the state of being where you have received 100% knowledge. Knowing everything is a state of bliss, you are one with everything that Is. This state is also called Samadhi or Ananada or Satori or enlightenment or Self-Realization or God-realization.

So:

Ignorance = Bliss
Enlightenment = Bliss

Ignorance = Enlightenment

Or both states gives you bliss

We are in between, we do know some stuff, but not all of it.




DD - Love Spliff

BadBadBad

Well, I guess you sleep better at night with this blather, but don't come here expecting much respect for it. Someone would rather live away from you and your bud God, so much so that they want to roast in hell for eternity? Yeah right! That's what I want. That's what my whole existence on Earth is all about. Getting away from God. When I'm roasting in hell, sure, I'll be thinking that this is exactly where I want to be! I'll be thinking "Oh boy another day of roasting. Goody Goody this is everything I've always wanted!" I say this with complete jest, and you say it with all seriousness.

HelenM

Long winded fool, did you know what what you wrote doesn't agree with the Bible? Have you read this?

Luke 16:19 "There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 "The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, `Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.' 25 "But Abraham replied, `Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.' 27 "He answered, `Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.' 29 "Abraham replied, `They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.' 30 "`No, father Abraham,' he said, `but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.' 31 "He said to him, `If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'"

Despite what you wrote, this man in hell (actually Hades-for-wicked-people which is the precursor to hell) doesn't seem happy; it doesn't seem that he's getting everything he wanted.

I don't know what you believe about the Bible. I'm just pointing out that you and the Bible evidently aren't in agreement.

Helen

Rhea

This might make sense if my loved one didn't know I existed, or if I did not have the power to make myself heard. (notwithstanding your so-sensitive personal (non-biblical) interpretation of hell)

But I'm not sure the bible agrees that the human is so much more powerful than god that god cannot make herself known. You know?


So if I call my loved one and ask her to live with me, but she doesn't hear the phone ring, so I leave a message, and maybe I leave another message when she doesn't call back, and perhaps a bunch of them. But at some point, if I really love my loved one and I real;ly want them to come live with me, I have to take the responsibility to personally show up at her doorstep and look her in the face and know that she knows the invitation exists. Before I can bolame her for turning it down.

Unless this is too difficult for a god?

Rhea

Although, I have to say, as someone who is currently forcing a loved one to live with me against her will, I guess I just have to say that God's method IS NOT ACCEPTABLE and I would not be able to sleep at night if I left my MIL to wallow in rotten food and feces just because she wants to be independent.

Obviously, you would choose to let her die in her own waste because that's what she wants and you wouldn't dream of forcing her. It would probably only take a couple of weeks, I suppose for her to finally die. Should I check on her from time to time to make sure I can get her corpse collected before the flies get too bad?


I can't believe the way you people think.

Magus55

Because with full understanding of how God and the world works, we will know that there was no other choice but for them to go to Hell, since they can't be in God's presence and have to be punished for their sins. Those in hell made that choice - and we will accept it. That and we will be at such peace and love surrounded by God, never to be separated again - we won't be thinking about the people who reject God. Relationships that we have on earth are broken in Heaven. In other words, there are no parents or kids among humans. Its God as the parent, and all those saved as his children - brothers and sisters in Christ. Those in Hell are no longer part of the family so you wouldn't love them like a family member.

God said there is no sadness or tears in Heaven, and we will still have free will - therefore - however its done - those in Heaven will not be crying over those who rejected God.