dangin

Fr. Andrews "What is it about sex?

To further narrow Helen's point. It's for the sexually mature.

I'm all for removing the stigmas from adult sex, homosexuality, masturbation, group sex, what have you. It's great. But this is among adults, able to give consent, and more sexually experienced to boot.

The thing about virginity, and all of our hypothetical "victims" were virgins the first time they were abused, is that once it is gone, it is gone. I knew lot's of girls who got fucked by daddy when I was in middle and high school. I was a freaking magnet for them, don't ask me why, I don't know.

But the one thing they all had in common was that they were not only sexually available, they were sexually seeking. I'm sure their were those who went the opposite direction and shut down, but they weren't the ones that came looking for me. (some were looking for sex, one that I will never forget asked me to get her a gun because her father was moving on to her little brother now, just as he had moved on from each of her sisters when they got "to old" at the age of 13.)

This behavior on their part was not a social stigma, their guilt may have been, their anger may have been, their suicidal/homicidal tendencies may have been. But the fact that the "genie was out of the bottle" as far as their hyman was concerned took away all the magic and all the restraint.

The earlier one starts sex, the more of a sexual risk taker that person will be. I'm willing to accept the odds of these increased risks when the young person is at least waiting until maturity. But it is unaceptable to force this on someone unable to legally consent, and then expect them to shepherd their new awareness of their sexuality in a resposible manner.

But Fr. Andrews is going to continue to ignore me, just like he is going to continue to assert that the grinding between Mimi and Reenie added benefit to the relationship.

Amen-Moses

But why? What is intrinsically wrong with two 7 year olds indulging in sex?

Amen-Moses

integral domain

Oh that's wrong.... if that's how you're defining it. That's simply child molestation.

I'd say however, that if the boy is >13 and the man is less <35 it might be ok.

integral domain

Because with sex comes a set of emotions and responsibilities that 7 year olds might not be ready for.

Amen-Moses

In my experience the emotions and responsibilities only come with adulthood, I can't for the life of me imagine what emotions and responsibilities it would come with for 7 year olds!

I remember playing sexual games at 7 and the only emotion was curiosity and a slight guilty feeling that we might get caught. Neither of those had anything to do with the physical side but were direct consequences of societies reaction to sexuality as being dirty.

Amen-Moses

HelenM

I think it's immoral to give children the idea that sex is anything other than an adult activity, not to be entered into lightly because it can lead to life-changing consequences such as pregnancy and catching terminal diseases.

If seven-year old children want to play at sex I think the best possible thing that can be done for them is to encourage them to go do something age-appropriate instead. I wonder why they would even know about sex and want to try it; to me that indicates they've been sexually abused already or have been age-inappropriately been educated about sex. Imo.

Helen

Mad Kally

You expect us to believe that you told 7 people in your workplace the 2 scenarios, male and female, and no one thought much of it? There faces softened during the grandma story? I don't believe there was any difference because I honestly believe you made it up. We are talking about a 7 year old child.

Amen-Moses

Why on earth would you assume that? This is a thing I find most interesting, why do people assume that children need to be taught about sex when it is the most natural thing on earth, have you ever owned a puppy that shagged your leg? Who taught it to do that?

I have watched several children grow up and they all, especially the boys, can't leave themselves alone, my parents were ultra strict and any attempt to re-arrange the crockery was met with indignation and "don't touch yourself it's dirty" so what is more natural than finding someone else to touch it for you?

I try to tell my children to "take it in the bedroom" but would never deem to tell them it is wrong or dirty as to do so would be the height of hypocrisy!

Amen-Moses

HelenM

Saying something is not for children yet because it's for adults and saying it's dirty (i.e. shameful) are two entirely different things.

What is 'natural' is not necessarily best for the parties concerned. Anyway we live in a society where not much is 'natural' any more.

Helen

Fr.Andrew

(Mad Kally): You expect us to believe that you told 7 people in your workplace the 2 scenarios, male and female, and no one thought much of it?
(Fr Andrew): No, but I do expect you to read and retain what I wrote. i.e.--"Without exception, a look of discomfort and revulsion swept across their faces (it registered particularly in their eyes). Does that sound like "no one thought much of it."?
And I didn't talk to people in my "workplace" because I have no "workplace"--I said that I had interviewed seven people that I'd run into during the course of the day.

(Mad Kally): There faces softened during the grandma story?
(Fr Andrew): Their faces did.

(Mad Kally): I don't believe there was any difference because I honestly believe you made it up.
(Fr Andrew): I don't have a whole lot invested in what you believe, Mad Kally.