Freethought & Rationalism Archive

SecularFuture · 03-01-2003, 02:40 PM

http://www.restorethepledge.com/petition
http://www.restorethepledge.com/care_to_help

Lets Restore our Pledge of Allegiance!!

Please, EVERYONE, visit the sites above, and then send the sites to EVERYONE you know, expressing reasons why you feel the pledge needs to be restored. This is a VERY important first step for equal rights for all humankind!

SecularFuture · 03-01-2003, 04:05 PM

I need a little help with this one.
How does this letter sound?

ALSO: My statistics came from:
http://www.adherents.com

Dear United States of America,

There are nearly 1.2 billion secular and non-religious people in the world today, and 27 million of them live in the United States. Do these people deserve exclusion from the big picture that is America? They can be just as law-abiding and patriotic as anyone else, and most are. So, why do we insist on excluding them from our pledge of allegiance for the United States?

Some may not personally agree with non-religious philosophies, but if the people who adhere to them are just as hard working, and kind hearted, as anyone else, why should we disrespect or ignore their positions?

Churches, television, and in homes all across the United States, religion and theism can be found and easily accessed. Why does it also need to be included into the public schools? Do we not believe that the schools are to be a place for promoting learning, and not to promote the ideals of a particular philosophy?

How would it make some feel if the pledge were atheistic, �one nation, without God�. That kind of a statement would upset many people, I am sure. So, let us not choose one side over another, and make a pledge that is neutral for everyone. Instead of being �one nation, without God� or �one nation, under God�, let us become �one nation.�

Sincerely,
Tony S

beth · 03-01-2003, 09:55 PM

Thanks. I'm more against saying the pledge than "God" being mentioned. I love my country (i.e., the people and freedom), but I don't have the desire to pledge allegience to a corrupt government system. My son told me it bothered him to say the pledge. I told him he didn't have to say it. He was shocked because he said his teacher makes him. I told him to tell his teacher that his mommy told him that it was unlawful to force anyone to say the pledge. No problems since.

SecularFuture · 03-01-2003, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by blondegoddess
Thanks. I'm more against saying the pledge than "God" being mentioned. I love my country (i.e., the people and freedom), but I don't have the desire to pledge allegience to a corrupt government system. My son told me it bothered him to say the pledge. I told him he didn't have to say it. He was shocked because he said his teacher makes him. I told him to tell his teacher that his mommy told him that it was unlawful to force anyone to say the pledge. No problems since.

The teacher tried to make him say the pledge?

Thank you for refueling my rage.

chiron64 · 03-01-2003, 10:33 PM

This is just a bit off topic, but I thought it was relevant because this is what you're up against. The site below claims to have close to a million signatures on paper and online petitions. There's also a list of governors who have endorsed the amendment.

WePledge.com

Quote:

American Family Association is joining others in an effort to pass a Constitutional Amendment protecting the Pledge of Allegiance and our national motto, "In God We Trust." This proposed Constitutional Amendment is sponsored in the House (H.J. Res 108) by Rep. Chip Pickering and in the Senate (S.J. Res 43) by Senator Trent Lott. It will protect our Pledge of Allegiance and national motto, and will prohibit judges from declaring them illegal.

I heard an advertisement on the radio the other day that I think was sponsored by these people. It starts with a kid talking to his grandfather about how liberals want to outlaw praying, the pledge, In God We Trust, blah, blah, blah. The kicker comes at the end. A guard comes to take the grandfather away. He's in jail for praying

Has anyone else heard this?

SecularFuture · 03-02-2003, 01:24 AM

Quote:

"WePledge.com"

BULLPOOP!

Quote:

"It starts with a kid talking to his grandfather about how liberals want to outlaw praying, the pledge, In God We Trust, blah, blah, blah."

In order to fight against this theisic beast, we must use our intelligence! We, the secularists, may be smaller in population, but if we put our minds together, WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE!

Michael Newdow was just ONE MAN, and look at what he did?!

COME ON PEOPLE?!

SecularFuture · 03-02-2003, 01:36 AM

AN EXCELLENT LINK!
http://www.atheists.org/action/contacts.html
CONTACT YOUR ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES

HELP MAKE A DIFFERENCE!

SecularFuture · 03-02-2003, 02:05 AM

I think this one sounds a little better:
What do you think?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dear United States of America,

There are nearly 1.2 billion secular and/or non-religious people living in the world today, and 27 million of them live in the United States. They can be, and most are just as law-abiding and patriotic as anyone else. So, why do we insist on excluding them from our pledge of allegiance for the United States? Some may not personally agree with non-religious philosophies, but if the people who adhere to them are just as hard working, and kind hearted, as anyone else, why should we disrespect or ignore their positions?

Churches, television, and in homes all across the United States, examples of religion and theism can be found and easily accessed. Why does it also need to be included into the public schools? Do we not believe that the schools are for promoting learning, and not for promoting the ideals of a particular philosophy?

How would it make some feel if the pledge were atheistic, �one nation, without God�. That kind of a statement would upset many people, I am sure. So, let us not choose one side over another, and make a pledge that is neutral for everyone. Instead of being �one nation, without God� or �one nation, under God�, let us become �one nation.�

Sincerely,
Tony S

Evangelion · 03-02-2003, 10:37 AM

Wow.

Quote:

There are nearly 1.2 billion secular and non-religious people in the world today, and 27 million of them live in the United States.

That's an astonishingly low number.

Small wonder you guys feel victimised. I'd feel the same way if I was in your position.

And no, I am not having a lend of you. I genuinely sympathise with your situation.

Shake · 03-02-2003, 12:24 PM

A friend of mine recently sent me an email about WePledge.com and their petition. I responded by politely declining to sign their petition. I didn't make the comment that I thought that the PoA was antiquated and should be retired altogether, but I did make mention of the myth of America being an Xian nation. I also mentioned something else I'd read before about e-petitions. That is that they're not terribly effective. Politicians give them less regard than an old-style paper petition where you can see actual signatures. Since names and email addresses can be culled off of the web, an e-petition is much easier to fake. Better groups running e-petitions have ways to double-check and verify that you do indeed want to be included on their document. Another thing I neglected to mention to him was the fact that we got through a depression, and 2 World Wars without God being in the PoA! Actually, I just remembered that I think I sent him a link to one of the petitions to remove "under God" from the PoA, and he politely declined.

Anyway, in spite of a) my feeling that the PoA should be retired, and b) my lack of faith in the effectiveness of e-petitions, I have endorsed the one at www.restorethepledge.com

Good luck! I'll pass these links along.

03-01-2003, 02:40 PM	#1
SecularFuture Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 3,866	== This Is Very Important!!! == http://www.restorethepledge.com/petition http://www.restorethepledge.com/care_to_help Lets Restore our Pledge of Allegiance!! Please, EVERYONE, visit the sites above, and then send the sites to EVERYONE you know, expressing reasons why you feel the pledge needs to be restored. This is a VERY important first step for equal rights for all humankind!

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03-01-2003, 04:05 PM	#2
SecularFuture Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 3,866	I need a little help with this one. How does this letter sound? ALSO: My statistics came from: http://www.adherents.com Dear United States of America, There are nearly 1.2 billion secular and non-religious people in the world today, and 27 million of them live in the United States. Do these people deserve exclusion from the big picture that is America? They can be just as law-abiding and patriotic as anyone else, and most are. So, why do we insist on excluding them from our pledge of allegiance for the United States? Some may not personally agree with non-religious philosophies, but if the people who adhere to them are just as hard working, and kind hearted, as anyone else, why should we disrespect or ignore their positions? Churches, television, and in homes all across the United States, religion and theism can be found and easily accessed. Why does it also need to be included into the public schools? Do we not believe that the schools are to be a place for promoting learning, and not to promote the ideals of a particular philosophy? How would it make some feel if the pledge were atheistic, �one nation, without God�. That kind of a statement would upset many people, I am sure. So, let us not choose one side over another, and make a pledge that is neutral for everyone. Instead of being �one nation, without God� or �one nation, under God�, let us become �one nation.� Sincerely, Tony S

03-01-2003, 09:55 PM	#3
beth Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: where orange blossoms bloom... Posts: 1,802	Thanks. I'm more against saying the pledge than "God" being mentioned. I love my country (i.e., the people and freedom), but I don't have the desire to pledge allegience to a corrupt government system. My son told me it bothered him to say the pledge. I told him he didn't have to say it. He was shocked because he said his teacher makes him. I told him to tell his teacher that his mommy told him that it was unlawful to force anyone to say the pledge. No problems since.

03-02-2003, 01:36 AM	#7
SecularFuture Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 3,866	AN EXCELLENT LINK! http://www.atheists.org/action/contacts.html CONTACT YOUR ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES HELP MAKE A DIFFERENCE!

03-02-2003, 02:05 AM	#8
SecularFuture Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 3,866	I think this one sounds a little better: What do you think? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dear United States of America, There are nearly 1.2 billion secular and/or non-religious people living in the world today, and 27 million of them live in the United States. They can be, and most are just as law-abiding and patriotic as anyone else. So, why do we insist on excluding them from our pledge of allegiance for the United States? Some may not personally agree with non-religious philosophies, but if the people who adhere to them are just as hard working, and kind hearted, as anyone else, why should we disrespect or ignore their positions? Churches, television, and in homes all across the United States, examples of religion and theism can be found and easily accessed. Why does it also need to be included into the public schools? Do we not believe that the schools are for promoting learning, and not for promoting the ideals of a particular philosophy? How would it make some feel if the pledge were atheistic, �one nation, without God�. That kind of a statement would upset many people, I am sure. So, let us not choose one side over another, and make a pledge that is neutral for everyone. Instead of being �one nation, without God� or �one nation, under God�, let us become �one nation.� Sincerely, Tony S

03-02-2003, 12:24 PM	#10
Shake Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Folding@Home in upstate NY Posts: 14,394	A friend of mine recently sent me an email about WePledge.com and their petition. I responded by politely declining to sign their petition. I didn't make the comment that I thought that the PoA was antiquated and should be retired altogether, but I did make mention of the myth of America being an Xian nation. I also mentioned something else I'd read before about e-petitions. That is that they're not terribly effective. Politicians give them less regard than an old-style paper petition where you can see actual signatures. Since names and email addresses can be culled off of the web, an e-petition is much easier to fake. Better groups running e-petitions have ways to double-check and verify that you do indeed want to be included on their document. Another thing I neglected to mention to him was the fact that we got through a depression, and 2 World Wars without God being in the PoA! Actually, I just remembered that I think I sent him a link to one of the petitions to remove "under God" from the PoA, and he politely declined. Anyway, in spite of a) my feeling that the PoA should be retired, and b) my lack of faith in the effectiveness of e-petitions, I have endorsed the one at www.restorethepledge.com Good luck! I'll pass these links along.

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