Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Opera Nut · 07-01-2003, 08:02 AM

Judaism is a religion, not an ethnic identity. Semitic is a linguistic identity.

People who believe that Israel has the right to exist as a free state, pursuant to the creation of the modern state after world war 2, are Zionists.

However, some Jews believe that Zionism is a pernicious and deadly philosophy because of the great violence that happens almost daily between Palestinian Arabs and Israeli Jews.

Jews who are anti-Zionist believe that the Jews who do not keep the laws of the Torah are prevented from establishing a nation-state in Israel because of the exile from Jerusalem.

More info:
www.jewsagainstzionism.com

Calzaer · 07-01-2003, 01:00 PM

Still waiting for Magus's numbers...

Magus55 · 07-01-2003, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Opera Nut
Judaism is a religion, not an ethnic identity. Semitic is a linguistic identity.

Main Entry: Jew
Pronunciation: 'j�
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French gyu, from Latin Judaeus, from Greek Ioudaios, from Hebrew YehudhI, from YehudhAh Judah, Jewish kingdom
Date: 13th century
1 a : a member of the tribe of Judah b : ISRAELITE
2 : a member of a nation existing in Palestine from the 6th century B.C. to the 1st century A.D.
3 : a person belonging to a continuation through descent or conversion of the ancient Jewish people
4 : one whose religion is Judaism

I fall under number 3, and partly number 4 because I follow my Jewish roots - the only thing different between me and a mainstream Jew is, i believe in Jesus as the Messiah, they don't. That is the only difference between us.

Opera Nut · 07-01-2003, 09:42 PM

The term "Cognitive Dissonance" means nothing to you, does it?

Your convenient glossing over and ignoring all statements I have made from authoritative sources make as little sense as the "Christian logic" of these two statements:

"We have free will to Love God" and "But if you don't Love the Christian God, you will fry in Hell". Free will versus coercion by threat of eternal punishment for a finite lifespan.

Never the twain shall meet....

Why am I NOT Surprised???

Secular Pinoy · 07-02-2003, 01:20 AM

Nope, you're a Christian who happens to be of Jewish Descent. You do not follow Judaism in any reconizable form since you accept the NT as scripture and that you accept JC as Messiah. See my reply to your deception at another thread on Messianic Judaism. You haven't answered my analogy of your tactics.

Calzaer · 07-02-2003, 01:35 PM

Numbers, Magus?

Calzaer · 07-02-2003, 10:13 PM

STILL waiting for numbers..

winstonjen · 07-02-2003, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Calzaer
STILL waiting for numbers..

Perhaps he's been Raptured (TM) and we're LEFT BEHIND!

Shamelessly stolen from a Nutwatch from QoS.

Wayne P · 07-03-2003, 05:12 AM

Magus wrote:

Quote:

I fall under number 3, and partly number 4 because I follow my Jewish roots - the only thing different between me and a mainstream Jew is, i believe in Jesus as the Messiah, they don't. That is the only difference between us.

Sure that is the only difference....but only if you ignore that

1. Mainstream Jews believe in a Human Messiah and you worship a divine Messiah.

2. Mainstream Jews only have one testament whereas you have two, the newer of which abrogates most of the laws of the older - Jewish - testament.

3. Mainstream Jews consider their salvation to be through the Torah,but you consider salvation to be through faith in Jesus.

There are more differences but these three immediately come to mind. So isn't it a little dishonest to assert that the only difference between you and Mainstream Jews is that they are still waiting for the Messiah?

Kilgore Trout · 07-03-2003, 08:46 PM

Quote:

originally posted by Soul Invictus

Quote:

Originally posted by Kilgore Trout

Jesus taught things that were against the Hebrew god's law. That made him a false prophet.

Jesus said in Matthew 23:1-3 that people must obey and follow the orders of the teachers of the law. The teachers of the law said Jesus was a false prophet, therefore even Jesus is indirectly admitting he is a false prophet!

When you disregard the Hebrew god's law and worship false gods you are not a Jew.

I was not aware of this. I am familiar with a few of Paul's teachings that contradict the OT however I wasn't familiar with Jesus. Would you have a few examples?

Matthew 5 is full of examples. he changes the rules about divorce, the "eye for an eye" rule and others. John 8:1-11, the "cast the first stone" story is against the law. God told them to stone adulterers, Jesus is telling people not to. Compassionate? Yes. But against the laws that god gave the Hebrews nonetheless. As soon as you change any part of the law you are a false prophet because god said to follow the laws forever.

That is why you can't be a Jew for Jesus because you can't follow all the laws since Jesus changed them.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

07-01-2003, 08:02 AM	#31
Opera Nut Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Houston TX Posts: 1,671	Judaism is a religion, not an ethnic identity. Semitic is a linguistic identity. People who believe that Israel has the right to exist as a free state, pursuant to the creation of the modern state after world war 2, are Zionists. However, some Jews believe that Zionism is a pernicious and deadly philosophy because of the great violence that happens almost daily between Palestinian Arabs and Israeli Jews. Jews who are anti-Zionist believe that the Jews who do not keep the laws of the Torah are prevented from establishing a nation-state in Israel because of the exile from Jerusalem. More info: www.jewsagainstzionism.com

07-01-2003, 01:00 PM	#32
Calzaer Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,762	Still waiting for Magus's numbers...

07-01-2003, 09:42 PM	#34
Opera Nut Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Houston TX Posts: 1,671	The term "Cognitive Dissonance" means nothing to you, does it? Your convenient glossing over and ignoring all statements I have made from authoritative sources make as little sense as the "Christian logic" of these two statements: "We have free will to Love God" and "But if you don't Love the Christian God, you will fry in Hell". Free will versus coercion by threat of eternal punishment for a finite lifespan. Never the twain shall meet.... Why am I NOT Surprised???

07-02-2003, 01:20 AM	#35
Secular Pinoy Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Quezon City, Philippines Posts: 1,994	Nope, you're a Christian who happens to be of Jewish Descent. You do not follow Judaism in any reconizable form since you accept the NT as scripture and that you accept JC as Messiah. See my reply to your deception at another thread on Messianic Judaism. You haven't answered my analogy of your tactics.

07-02-2003, 01:35 PM	#36
Calzaer Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,762	Numbers, Magus?

07-02-2003, 10:13 PM	#37
Calzaer Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,762	STILL waiting for numbers..

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.