Kosh

Don't be pig.

fatherphil

quart, if the jews that wrote the nt were able to understand the ot scriptures how is it that you in all your modern wisdom can't?
balaam did not tell the men that isreal was blessed because he wanted to keep the door open to this deal. he was actually hedging with God and when he got what he thought was a green light to take this job he anxiously went with every intent of fulfilling balak's request. he was so blinded spiritually by his greed that he was unable to see the angel when his donkey could. not a good sign for a man of his talents. his sin was being outside of the will of God and he knew it and confesses it. he does not state that his sin was one of ignorance. but then why read this stuff if you are not attempting to understand it?

Kosh

I don't see where in the text it states this. Can you show us where it says that only the donkey could see the angel? Also, since when does being
"blinded spiritually" affect physical vision?

fatherphil

21 Balaam got up in the morning, saddled his donkey and went with the princes of Moab. 22 But God was very angry when he went, and the angel of the LORD stood in the road to oppose him. Balaam was riding on his donkey, and his two servants were with him. 23 When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD standing in the road with a drawn sword in his hand, she turned off the road into a field. Balaam beat her to get her back on the road.
24 Then the angel of the LORD stood in a narrow path between two vineyards, with walls on both sides. 25 When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD , she pressed close to the wall, crushing Balaam's foot against it. So he beat her again.
26 Then the angel of the LORD moved on ahead and stood in a narrow place where there was no room to turn, either to the right or to the left. 27 When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD , she lay down under Balaam, and he was angry and beat her with his staff. 28 Then the LORD opened the donkey's mouth, and she said to Balaam, "What have I done to you to make you beat me these three times?"
29 Balaam answered the donkey, "You have made a fool of me! If I had a sword in my hand, I would kill you right now."
30 The donkey said to Balaam, "Am I not your own donkey, which you have always ridden, to this day? Have I been in the habit of doing this to you?"
"No," he said.
31 Then the LORD opened Balaam's eyes, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the road with his sword drawn. So he bowed low and fell facedown.
32 The angel of the LORD asked him, "Why have you beaten your donkey these three times? I have come here to oppose you because your path is a reckless one before me. [3] 33 The donkey saw me and turned away from me these three times. If she had not turned away, I would certainly have killed you by now, but I would have spared her."
34 Balaam said to the angel of the LORD , "I have sinned. I did not realize you were standing in the road to oppose me. Now if you are displeased, I will go back."
35 The angel of the LORD said to Balaam, "Go with the men, but speak only what I tell you." So Balaam went with the princes of Balak.
36 When Balak heard that Balaam was coming, he went out to meet him at the Moabite town on the Arnon border, at the edge of his territory. 37 Balak said to Balaam, "Did I not send you an urgent summons? Why didn't you come to me? Am I really not able to reward you?"
38 "Well, I have come to you now," Balaam replied. "But can I say just anything? I must speak only what God puts in my mouth."
39 Then Balaam went with Balak to Kiriath Huzoth. 40 Balak sacrificed cattle and sheep, and gave some to Balaam and the princes who were with him. 41 The next morning Balak took Balaam up to Bamoth Baal, and from there he saw part of the people.



verse 31 implies a blindness on balaam's part. ballam's servants did not see the angel either and we can assume that they never did see him. paul went through a period of physical blindness during his conversion from judaism to belief in Christ. there are other instances of physical manifestations occurring during personnal spiritual struggles. but remember, balaam was known for operating in the spiritual realm and would be expected to be at least as spiritually perceptive as his donkey.

also i pasted chapter 22:21-39 above to facilitate further discussion.

BioBeing

Your wording was that "belief affects outcome" and I read it literally. I understand what you are saying now.

I would define the word "miracle" as something that cannot possibly be explained by natural means. I would take number 1 from Merriam-Webster here for the current context:
Someone rasing from the dead would be a true miracle (especially after three days) -- assuming that they were fully and medically dead in the first place, that all of it was documented by a team of trained doctors etc etc. A donkey talking would be a miracle, assuming again that ventriloqism, hidden speakers, hallucinations, Shrek etc were ruled out. An item floating in a liquid when the laws of physics say it should sink would be a miracle - remember to rule out surface tension (and have it documented a bit better than a source such as the bible! Can you make an axehead float for me?). A barbeque being started purely by prayer would be a miracle (hmmm - there was a thread on that too a while back!)

"Miracles" such as faith healing sick people usually, to my knowledge, invlove either staged trickery in the case of some, or people getting better naturally - in the studies linked to in another thread, prayer has been shown to have zero effect on outcomes. The Red Sea parting can apparently happen by natural means. Rainbows are not the work of God, but white light being diffracted by water droplets in the air...

Jesus healing a Centurion's servant? Hmmm - you haven't presented any suitable evidence.

To quote the OP
To me - the point of this thread (humor aside ) is: God made an ass talk - true or false. If one believes it is true - one believes in miracles. So can anyone now convince me that miracles happen (using peer-reviewed, eyewitness accounts, if possible)? Can you, in fact, convince us that as ass really talked?






[Addendum - if you can in fact prove miracles do happen, can you further prove that it was one particular God who caused them to happen. Thank you].

fatherphil

bio, i don't think the proof for the existence of God will occur anytime soon and certainly not anywhere near this forum.

BioBeing

Why not here? He'd get good bang for the buck - all the non-believers hanging around here and all...

Oh well, just thought I'd ask anyway.

But what you are saying then, is that it is impossible for you (or anyone) to convince any of us that the ass actually talked.

fatherphil

depends on what you would require to be convinced.

BioBeing

Ahhhh - who knows?

lpetrich

An omnipotent being could easily work that out, don't you think?