Oolon Colluphid

Creationist! Still part of the dog ‘kind’, eh?

I suppose it depends on your definition, but it is macro if speciation itself is included at the starting point of 'evolution above the species level'. Sure they're still dogs of a sort. They're also still canids of a sort, carnivores of a sort, mammals of a sort and craniates of a sort! Remember that, as far as the day-to-day running of it is concerned, macro-evolution is simply cumulative micro-evolution.

As a short-hand, yes: it’s the basis of the ‘Biological Species Concept’. However, species boundaries are often very blurred. Generally distinct species can and do sometimes interbreed, and the results aren't inevitably infertile (mallards and pintails, lions and tigers, llamas and alpacas or even camels); conversely there's increasing evidence of long-term genetic introgression which hasn't lead to species fusion (Mayr quotes cases of Quercus oaks and Betula birches, and there was an article in New Scientist a couple of years back about someone studying blurred species boundaries in, IIRC, butterflies).

What it amounts to is that speciation is the evolution of isolating mechanisms. There's a range of these, both pre- and post-mating (differences in courtship, shape of genitalia, hybrid genetic incompatibility, etc), and they are what keep species distinct. Naturally we therefore find in nature a range of interbreedability. And equally naturally, the species that can or do interbreed (or try to) are those most closely related -- the ones where the isolating mechanisms are least set.

One important isolating mechanism is physical... and it is what keeps toy dogs and great danes apart. (Note though, Camaban, that it isn't for want of trying! Put them together and they'll give it a go! Someone in another thread where this came up (erm, so to speak) reported seeing such a liaison, where the toy male struggled and struggled, and eventually lay down and shot his load in frustration.) This is no different to the genitalia differences that keeps species of butterfly (iirc, some insect anyway) apart usually. It's a purely physical boundary preventing successful coitus. A difference in size is all it may take.

Now, if camels and llamas can interbreed, are they separate species? Of course they are. But if they are, then so might large dogs and toy breeds be. If voting was how science was done, I’d vote for this being macro-evolution, because the morphological changes have been such as to make interbreeding at least as difficult as it is between ‘clearly’ distinct, naturally separate species.

Cheers, Oolon

Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ

Nothing new on his website in nearly 2 months!

Camaban

How often is it normally updated?

tgamble

Anytime a new fossil, or new data is discovered that the lying, cimmie evilutionist scum claims support their religion so Hovind can tell the TRUTH!

Camaban

come think, has he posted anything on the mummy?

(I would go there, but it's too depressing... knowing I share a common ancestory with this man, and am thus related... albeit extremely distantly)

Devious

Mr. Hovind is probably on a vacation, carefully thinking out a possible arguement, and trying not to think of the 250,000$ that he should be giving out... <img src="graemlins/boohoo.gif" border="0" alt="[Boo Hoo]" />

tgamble

HA! I wish I could go on vacation while bankrupt and without actually having an income.

[ October 25, 2002: Message edited by: tgamble ]

[ October 25, 2002: Message edited by: tgamble ]</p>

tgamble

Devious

look at me, I'm Kent Hovind, I lie to little kids and pretend Cristinanity is real, even tho I know Atheism is reel.

Here is my god-worshiping orcestra:

<img src="graemlins/boohoo.gif" border="0" alt="[Boo Hoo]" /> <img src="graemlins/boohoo.gif" border="0" alt="[Boo Hoo]" /> <img src="graemlins/boohoo.gif" border="0" alt="[Boo Hoo]" /> <img src="graemlins/boohoo.gif" border="0" alt="[Boo Hoo]" /> <img src="graemlins/boohoo.gif" border="0" alt="[Boo Hoo]" /> <img src="graemlins/boohoo.gif" border="0" alt="[Boo Hoo]" /> <img src="graemlins/boohoo.gif" border="0" alt="[Boo Hoo]" /> <img src="graemlins/boohoo.gif" border="0" alt="[Boo Hoo]" />

i'm going on vacation with the 250,000$ which are supposed to be given!1 R'nt I c0o0;?

[ October 25, 2002: Message edited by: Devious ]</p>

Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ

Apparently, at least once a month, by looking at the news updates and the time intervals between. Often, multiple times in a month, sometimes day.