Toto

<a href="http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-classroom20nov20,0,215087.story?coll=la%2Dhome%2Dt odays%2Dtimes" target="_blank">Good News Club</a> (requires free registration)

Not only is this Christian group meeting on school property, but they have somehow persuaded a federal judge that they should be exempt from paying the normal clean up fees that other non-school groups pay.(!) The school district is appealing that ruling.

(I think it's called bootstrapping. First they argued that they deserved equal access with other groups. Then they somehow turned this into a right to use the facilities for free.)

Grumpy

The nerve! Just because the Supreme Court ruled last year in <a href="http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=14118" target="_blank">Good News Club vs. Milford Central School</a> that the Good News Club can meet in public schools, doesn't mean they should. I mean, think of the children!

FYI, this is the "Suckers for Christ" outfit, i.e. give a child a lollipop if they'll accept Jesus as their savior. Pretty lowdown stuff.

[ November 20, 2002: Message edited by: Grumpy ]</p>

Voltaire Is My Hero

Do the Gideons still hand out bibles in public schools? They did when I was a kid, back in the '70s. They weren't allowed to preach or give a verbal statement of faith; they'd just stand there with a big open box, passing out handfuls of bibles to whoever wanted one.

Imagine the outrage if Muslims were to do something similar, either in like manner to the "Good News Club," or handing out small editions of the Koran! Ooooo.

Actually, this sort of behavior goes against Christian scripture as well: "Saint" Paul wrote that Christians are supposed to obey the laws of whatever nation they find themselves in. I guess that portion of the "holy bible" is deliberately overlooked, rationalized, or ignored...which is hypocrisy.

What part of SEPARATION of church from state do these conniving weasels not understand?

--Cindy


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Grumpy

Funny you should mention that. I just read <a href="http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=17295" target="_blank">today</a> that the Gideons backed away from handing out Bibles at a school in Alabama. They were afraid of losing in court, so they decided not to press the issue.

To be fair, it's a gray area. If a school can have an anti-drug group hand out materials, why should Gideons be censored based on the content of their message? The answer is obvious: because then you have the government-run school endorsing a religious message and, as Sandra Day O'Connor put it, telling others that they are outsiders. Also, the Gideons shouldn't have to rely on the captive audience in schools. Hell, if they're that desperate for kids, they should hang around outside the schools, off government property, and distribute Bibles after the bell rings.

Layman

That's what they did back at my high school in Texas.

RufusAtticus

I think we need to collect donations and ask a school to allow us to distribute Russel's Why I am not a Christian or similar book as long as the Gideons are allowed to distribute theirs. If we are denied, then it is clear sign of bias and establishment. However, if they accept, fundy outrage might cause them to stop the policy entirely.

~~RvFvS~~

[ November 22, 2002: Message edited by: RufusAtticus ]</p>

The Admiral

If I take the Gideon Bible with me when I leave the motel room am I stealing?

The Admiral

Vorkosigan

Yes. The Bible is either the property of the Gideons or the property of the hotel. DOn Morgan contacted the Gideons with this exact question a while back, and got the clear answer. You can't remove it and not be a thief.

Vorkosigan

MrDarwin

I think it's neither practical nor wise to try to prevent groups like this (including groups like the Boy Scouts) from meeting in schools or using other public accommodations. What we need to do is demand that they be held to the exact same standards that other groups are held to, are required to pay exactly the same fees as other groups, and/or demand that non-religious groups be given exactly the same access and priveleges as the religious ones. This is the only way to avoid being tarred and feathered as the bad guys (although we will be anyway, as much as they can get away with it)--we're simply demanding that all groups be treated equally. It's high time we turned that "no special rights" slogan around on them.

[ December 07, 2002: Message edited by: MrDarwin ]</p>

Radorth

I hereby declare God will forgive anyone who steals it and reads it, and maybe even Vorkosigan, who would doubtless burn it.

Rad