HelenM

Darren, it sounds like your wife has some good reasons to go to individual counseling and as you say she'd probably like that this counselor is theistic. If you go together and your wife likes her then that could naturally lead to your wife seeing this woman on her own to talk about her childhood issues. So that might be reason enough for you to go to her.

Or you could keep looking and try to find a non-Christian counselor. Certainly not all counselors are Christians or even theists.

But I expect it would be a plus point to your wife that this one is - as you said.

Is your best friend (who recommended this counselor to you) a Christian? If not then evidently he/she is not bothered by the counselor's beliefs. Maybe you could ask your best friend how much they come up.

I would think the key thing to you is whether the counselor would take sides against you/misunderstand you on religious issues, or whether she can be sufficiently impartial as she helps you and your wife address difficulties in your marriage, even if she does express theistic sentiments to some extent.

Anyway it's just my opinion. I don't see what would be wrong with continuing to ask for recommendations, calling a few different counselors and seeing which one you like the sound of, most.

Helen

seebs

I am not at all convinced of this. Counselors have to confront the Big Questions; this implies that the client's religion will come up, and be relevant, and it also implies that the counselor's own opinions matter.

I agree that there's ethical concerns with a counselor pushing a religion at someone, but there are concerns just as grave in trying to avoid religion entirely. Like it or not, it's a component of human experience, and everyone - atheists included - is likely to have thought about many of the central religious questions, and found answers to them, and those answers are often fundamental to the way we live.

I would, on the other hand, hope that the counselor has the ability to address the relationship issues primarily from a more practical standpoint.

Vicar Philip

I don't post here to obtain "sympathy." I post here because I have no other non-Christian support in my life. I like the fact that I can relate portions of my life to the good folks here at IIDB and not get the "god will provide" or "you just have to have faith in Jesus" crap.

As I have posted above, I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that my wife is not getting legal advice. I do know that she is very intelligent, but she is NOT scheming against me at this point in time. I do compliment her frequently, and here again, compliments are not something she really knows how to take. When one is never praised as a child, it makes it very difficult to take compliments at face value as an adult.

Well, anyway B.shack, if this whole thing does blow up in my face in a few weeks, I won't be in here pouting and begging for sympathy. Advice, yes; pity, no.

HelenM

I guess that answers my question about whether your best friend - who recommended the counselor who has turned out to be a theist - is a Christian.

Have you told him (?) about your deconversion or does that seem like a bad idea?

If he's a Christian then he may not realize how much the counselor's theism would irritate you - well, especially if he thinks you are one also.

Helen

beth

Vicar, I also think that seeking a lawyer while you are trying to reconcile would be counter-productive. I think it would do irreversable harm if she were to find out that you did. I do hope that things turn for the better for you and your wife. It seems that it might.

Hobbs

Ditto. I said way back a while ago on this thread that consulting a lawyer was a good idea, but that if you do it, let your wife and others know that you are doing it and especially why you are doing it, i.e. that you definitely do not want to get a divorce but that since she has been talking about breaking up you felt you needed to find out how to protect yourself if she went through with it. The trouble is, she would still likely interpret it as a betrayal no matter how much you emphasized that it was only in response to her threatened betrayal of you. I think she certainly would interpret it that way if she found out you consulted a lawyer behind her back.

Thanks for confirming that you are saving emails and phone messages and taped a conversation. I don't remember you confirming that you were actually doing that until recently, and since you are, having that collected evidence should make not consulting a lawyer now less risky even if next week she decides its irreversibly over. So I think, given that you have been collecting evidence (and witnesses too, e.g. the pastor), the risks of consulting a lawyer at this time probably outweigh the benefits.

BadBadBad

I'm afraid you may find unsuccessful counselling just like I have and just like you already have. If you do decide to go to this person, I'd focus on your relationship not problems over religion. I'd just rule that out.

It's kind of like when Helen was advising me on what a fair compromise would be for my kids getting drug to church for some good ol' Baptist brainwashing. She didn't see my position that fair is each having equal and respectful input into the kids religious upbringing. She didn't see my position that less brainwashing from the entire Baptist congregation was not the same as each of us having equal say. I don't want to put words in your mouth Helen, but this is how I felt. I felt her bias towards christianity got in the way of impartial advice on the conflict. If my wife had been part of that conversation, it would have been two against one, and it may have had an impact on my wife and I being able to resolve it at all.

We've already seen what a mess it was with the preacher guy. I'd focus on relationship issues, not religion, and I wouldn't pin all your hopes on any counsellor. In the end, you two will have to put your heads together and work this out together with or without successful counselling.

BadBadBad

I don't want to harp on the lawyer thing anymore, but Hobbs post made me think about this with respect to the power struggle. One of the things I think you guys need to talk about with the counsellor is the power struggle. She has spouted off some pretty big power trips in what you've posted. I think you popping those power balloons is a good thing. The religion thing has elements of a power struggle. Do you get input into lifestyle issues, or is she the boss of that?

Hypothetically, if you had talked to a lawyer, it sure would have popped her divorce threat power trip. I liked the lawyer idea just for that! Maybe the counsellor can lead you both to some safer solutions for accepting and dealing with power issues.

HelenM

I think you may have misunderstood me somewhat but anyway this thread is not the place to discuss that. Suffice it to say that based on what you told me I did not agree that your wife's position was reasonable and I would have urged her to reach a compromise with you just as I would have urged you to try to reach one with her.

And if you have reached a compromise then regardless of whether it's the one I was envisaging or not, I think that's wonderful.

If I were talking to your wife I would have urged her to try to reach some compromises with you, i.e. not to insist everything had to be the way she was insisting, just as I was urging you to be willing to reach some compromises with her.

I agree with that but I also know that there was a time I really appreciated that I was able to go see a counselor with my husband. I was glad that we got to a point when we were less angry at each other and so we could manage without one again.

take care
Helen

Vicar Philip

Nah, he's a non-theist too. His real mother died of cancer when he was young, his step-mother died of cancer a few months ago, and he also lost his grandmother to cancer a few years ago. We don't really talk about our relationships all the time, and I don't bore him with all the details that I lay on you guys!

He said that the program is very definitely not religious based, as the state apparently helps to fund it. The lady I spoke to obviously is somewhat a fundy, but my friend said he never got the impression they were forcing religion into the classes. He did the class for several months, so I feel relatively safe going there. We're supposed to meet with her March 6th.

My wife is depressed today, but it's her job getting her down. It also doesn't help that three of our four kids are or have been sick the last couple days.