Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Vicar Philip · 10-26-2002, 12:42 PM

I am a newbie atheist, family man, happily married husband, and OK guitarist. Here's my problem:

My wife, myself, and my kids all belong to the United Methodist Church in our hometown, and have for about 5 years. We've been married for 15 years, kids are 13, 11, 8, and 3. I was raised Catholic, my wife raised Methodist. I always had doubts but never really expressed them.

Enough of the life history. Recently, my wife, a Sunday School teacher, was "scolded" for debating with a 17-year old student about our local university's Indian Chief mascot. The student is Native American, so of course the conflict was guaranteed. My wife never threatened the student, and we thought the conversation ended with them agreeing to disagree. This wasn't the case, and the girl's family and our ineffectual "Pastor" called a meeting with my wife, where she was told she could no longer co-teach that class. My wife was devastated, cried for a week, and felt humiliated and small. That's when I began to seriously question the place religion takes in people's lives.

A few weeks after this meeting I found a few websites dealing with Atheism and decided to try out this new perspective on life. I liked it. I liked it so much I told my wife about my newfound beliefs, and she DIDN'T like it. She is afraid that since our marriage is "built on god" and I no longer believe in god, I will no longer believe in our marriage. I assured her that wasn't the case, that I loved her just as much. Now the bad part.

Before my change of thinking, I had volunteered to "Strum for Jesus" by playing guitar for the Sunday School music class. I had always found most bible stories ridiculous anyway, but now that I think the whole thing is a sham, sitting there listening to the other teachers fill my kids' heads with the Noah's Ark BS, for example, really infuriates me. My wife has already warned me that I can't tell them how I feel. I have, however, discussed some of the more far-fetched aspects of the biblical teachings and told them to think what they want to think about it, but not discuss it with their Mother. She believes in it hook, line, and sinker, and whenever I raise questions, I always get the "We can't understand god" line. When I ask her why god no longer creates miracles, she says it's because Jesus died for us, and the OT events were no longer needed. Of course I protest, to no avail.

So do I respect her wishes and not tell the kids I have lost faith in god, or maybe let them know in some subtle way? I've been following Brettc's story in another thread, and I am fortunate that our disagreement is not leading to divorce. We love each other very much.

I've stopped going to church, but am still "Strummin' for Jesus." Thoughts??

Darren

lisarea · 10-26-2002, 01:10 PM

Why does she think she has any right at all to tell you what you can and cannot do?

Talk to her first, of course, and do anything you can to calm her fears about it, but you have absolutely every right in the world to explain your stance on religion to your children. You are their parent, too.

Sakpo · 10-26-2002, 02:28 PM

You commited to strum for Jesus, so I guess you ought to go forward with it. Maybe if you manage to play really badly they'll find someone else...

As for your kids, they're yours as much as hers, and you ought to be able to tell them what you now believe. I recomend you let the wife have them raised in the church, but insist on being open about your own atheism (this doesn't mean you have to give them big lectures on atheism, rather you ought to not go to church, pray, read bible stories, etc, and if the kids ask why, tell them).

managalar · 10-27-2002, 01:35 AM

Your feelings that filling your kids head's with non-sense folklore is shameful (correct in my opinion) should not be hidden. How much did you enjoy living your life with a bad feeling, only to realize it was bullshit many years later in life? Do you think your kids would forgive you if they spent their lives feeling uncomfortable about religion and they found out that you could have exposed them to a healither perspective?

I'd go for equal expression of your thoughts with your wifes. I'd remind your wife that if her faith is 'true' it can stand up to your critical thinking. Appeal to a sense that her kids are as smart as she is, and should be allowed to decide what 'truth' is.

I dont exactly know what you should do in your situation, I've questioned everything as long as I can remember. I had to figure out a lot of stuff alone, and I'm fairly embittered that I had to spend so much time answering life's questions while being pushed towards non-sense answers. There is a lot of pain that cant be undone, and it wells up when I see kids being indoctrinated in so-called schools.

southernhybrid · 10-27-2002, 03:31 AM

My first reaction is to tell you not to let your wife push you around. They're your kids too. However, let me try and be a little more constructive and a little less reactive with some suggestions.

Your wife probably feels confused, scared and a little hurt. She likely has some negative image of atheists. She may have never even known anyone openly atheist. She's likely afraid you're going to change your character. Maybe you could give her a month or two to adjust to your new beliefs. During this time, show her by example that you are still the same man and husband you've always been. Avoid discussions regarding religion during this time unless she has reasonable questions for you. You might even go a little out of your way to give her extra attention by doing some of the things you know really please her.

After allowing her a period of adjustment, tell her that as each child reaches a certain age, you are going to have a little discussion with them regarding why and how you have changed your beliefs. Do it without any criticism of their mother or of their church. Simply give rational reasons why you don't believe in god. You might also point out that sometimes churches do a lot of good things, i.e. charity work, providing emotional support and socialization among people who share common values, etc. Assure the children that it is up to each of them to decide the truth about religion and that you will love and support them regardless of what they eventually decide.

Hopefully, as time goes on and your wife sees that atheism doesn't mean anything negative or immoral, she will feel more at ease with your nontheism. You might also emphasize the things you admire about her and what you think keeps your marriage strong such as mutual love, admiration, friendship etc.

One more thought. If your wife is not a very conservative Xian, perhaps she would even consider attending a Unitarian Church, many of which have atheists/agnostics among their membership. That might be a compromise that works for your family.

Vicar Philip · 10-27-2002, 04:04 AM

I certainly appreciate everyone's replies, and the situation has kind of resolved itself. My 13-year old happens to be studying evolution in school, and he had some questions about the bible (damn, I'm still breaking the habit of capitalising god and bible!). So, after my wife went to work last night, I told my son about my beliefs. But, I stressed that I don't want him to feel either way about god based solely on what his mother or I believe; I want him to decide for himself based on the evidence. If only my dad would have told me this years ago.

He took it very well, and I saw him deeper in thought than I ever have. I also pulled up this link: <a href="http://www.infidels.org/~godlessheathen/kidshome.html" target="_blank">Godlessheathen's Index of Kids' Pages</a>
and let him read all the articles there. I told him that for now, I thought it best that this information stay between me and him, that my wife need not know yet. Now I have to get up the guts to tell her I told him. Pathetic, right? But again, I didn't lay it out to him to represent my beliefs as the ONE TRUE WAY, only an alternative to christianity for him to consider

[ October 27, 2002: Message edited by: x-xian ]

[ October 27, 2002: Message edited by: x-xian ]</p>

Puck · 10-27-2002, 04:25 AM

Children are hard to lie to. Even if they never express it, they question in their hearts.

Ya know how Barney (that purple dino) enchants little kids? It's because the show is happy and gentle. If Barney was doom and gloom you wouldn't be able to park a toddler in front of the TV like that.
As much as I can't stand Barney, there's a lesson for parents there.

Don't worry too much or take it too seriously. Your own enjoyment of life and lack of fear will show them much about your beliefs. Who wouldn't want to follow the beliefs of a happy parent as opposed to the parent who's scared to death of something invisible?

And your wife? She needs time to adjust. Relax. And quit being sneaky! Of course you have a right to express your feelings to your own children, but perhaps you can slow down a bit? The written word is powerful, just talk to your kids if it comes up for now. Once everyone adjusts, including you, you will know how to handle things comfortablly.

Puck · 10-27-2002, 04:37 AM

And that Strumm' for Jesus thing? Your children are watching you. We can't just tell the truth as we see it, we must live it. Are you teaching them to say one thing and do another?

Personally, I'd inform the church that I can no longer participate and they need to find someone else. I understand the importance of keeping ones word, but this doesn't look like some kind of serious committment compared to being honest.

Blankman · 10-27-2002, 09:22 PM

x-xian:

Quote:

...I told my wife about my newfound beliefs, and she DIDN'T like it. She is afraid that since our marriage is "built on god" and I no longer believe in god, I will no longer believe in our marriage. I assured her that wasn't the case, that I loved her just as much.

x-xian, you may want to share this web page with your wife, perhaps it will ease her mind a bit. There are other related sites if you search the web. This is just one. Hope this helps.

(frustrating being an atheist isn't it?)

<a href="http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm" target="_blank">web page</a>

The Other Michael · 10-28-2002, 06:33 AM

Quote:

She is afraid that since our marriage is "built on god" and I no longer believe in god, I will no longer believe in our marriage.

It seems to me a relationship that will have a better chance of lasting would be built on mutual love and respect.

Basing it on a religion, shared hobby, etc seems like building on the weak and shifting sands - if the interest in the activity wanes, so does the relationship.

good luck,
Michael

10-26-2002, 12:42 PM	#1
Vicar Philip Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Cozy little chapel of me own Posts: 1,162	Strummin' for Jesus I am a newbie atheist, family man, happily married husband, and OK guitarist. Here's my problem: My wife, myself, and my kids all belong to the United Methodist Church in our hometown, and have for about 5 years. We've been married for 15 years, kids are 13, 11, 8, and 3. I was raised Catholic, my wife raised Methodist. I always had doubts but never really expressed them. Enough of the life history. Recently, my wife, a Sunday School teacher, was "scolded" for debating with a 17-year old student about our local university's Indian Chief mascot. The student is Native American, so of course the conflict was guaranteed. My wife never threatened the student, and we thought the conversation ended with them agreeing to disagree. This wasn't the case, and the girl's family and our ineffectual "Pastor" called a meeting with my wife, where she was told she could no longer co-teach that class. My wife was devastated, cried for a week, and felt humiliated and small. That's when I began to seriously question the place religion takes in people's lives. A few weeks after this meeting I found a few websites dealing with Atheism and decided to try out this new perspective on life. I liked it. I liked it so much I told my wife about my newfound beliefs, and she DIDN'T like it. She is afraid that since our marriage is "built on god" and I no longer believe in god, I will no longer believe in our marriage. I assured her that wasn't the case, that I loved her just as much. Now the bad part. Before my change of thinking, I had volunteered to "Strum for Jesus" by playing guitar for the Sunday School music class. I had always found most bible stories ridiculous anyway, but now that I think the whole thing is a sham, sitting there listening to the other teachers fill my kids' heads with the Noah's Ark BS, for example, really infuriates me. My wife has already warned me that I can't tell them how I feel. I have, however, discussed some of the more far-fetched aspects of the biblical teachings and told them to think what they want to think about it, but not discuss it with their Mother. She believes in it hook, line, and sinker, and whenever I raise questions, I always get the "We can't understand god" line. When I ask her why god no longer creates miracles, she says it's because Jesus died for us, and the OT events were no longer needed. Of course I protest, to no avail. So do I respect her wishes and not tell the kids I have lost faith in god, or maybe let them know in some subtle way? I've been following Brettc's story in another thread, and I am fortunate that our disagreement is not leading to divorce. We love each other very much. I've stopped going to church, but am still "Strummin' for Jesus." Thoughts?? Darren

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

10-26-2002, 01:10 PM	#2
lisarea Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Broomfield, Colorado, USA Posts: 5,550	Why does she think she has any right at all to tell you what you can and cannot do? Talk to her first, of course, and do anything you can to calm her fears about it, but you have absolutely every right in the world to explain your stance on religion to your children. You are their parent, too.

10-26-2002, 02:28 PM	#3
Sakpo Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Pacific Northwest (illegally occupied indigenous l Posts: 7,716	You commited to strum for Jesus, so I guess you ought to go forward with it. Maybe if you manage to play really badly they'll find someone else... As for your kids, they're yours as much as hers, and you ought to be able to tell them what you now believe. I recomend you let the wife have them raised in the church, but insist on being open about your own atheism (this doesn't mean you have to give them big lectures on atheism, rather you ought to not go to church, pray, read bible stories, etc, and if the kids ask why, tell them).

10-27-2002, 01:35 AM	#4
managalar Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Lincoln, NE, United States Posts: 160	Your feelings that filling your kids head's with non-sense folklore is shameful (correct in my opinion) should not be hidden. How much did you enjoy living your life with a bad feeling, only to realize it was bullshit many years later in life? Do you think your kids would forgive you if they spent their lives feeling uncomfortable about religion and they found out that you could have exposed them to a healither perspective? I'd go for equal expression of your thoughts with your wifes. I'd remind your wife that if her faith is 'true' it can stand up to your critical thinking. Appeal to a sense that her kids are as smart as she is, and should be allowed to decide what 'truth' is. I dont exactly know what you should do in your situation, I've questioned everything as long as I can remember. I had to figure out a lot of stuff alone, and I'm fairly embittered that I had to spend so much time answering life's questions while being pushed towards non-sense answers. There is a lot of pain that cant be undone, and it wells up when I see kids being indoctrinated in so-called schools.

10-27-2002, 03:31 AM	#5
southernhybrid Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: heavenly Georgia Posts: 3,862	My first reaction is to tell you not to let your wife push you around. They're your kids too. However, let me try and be a little more constructive and a little less reactive with some suggestions. Your wife probably feels confused, scared and a little hurt. She likely has some negative image of atheists. She may have never even known anyone openly atheist. She's likely afraid you're going to change your character. Maybe you could give her a month or two to adjust to your new beliefs. During this time, show her by example that you are still the same man and husband you've always been. Avoid discussions regarding religion during this time unless she has reasonable questions for you. You might even go a little out of your way to give her extra attention by doing some of the things you know really please her. After allowing her a period of adjustment, tell her that as each child reaches a certain age, you are going to have a little discussion with them regarding why and how you have changed your beliefs. Do it without any criticism of their mother or of their church. Simply give rational reasons why you don't believe in god. You might also point out that sometimes churches do a lot of good things, i.e. charity work, providing emotional support and socialization among people who share common values, etc. Assure the children that it is up to each of them to decide the truth about religion and that you will love and support them regardless of what they eventually decide. Hopefully, as time goes on and your wife sees that atheism doesn't mean anything negative or immoral, she will feel more at ease with your nontheism. You might also emphasize the things you admire about her and what you think keeps your marriage strong such as mutual love, admiration, friendship etc. One more thought. If your wife is not a very conservative Xian, perhaps she would even consider attending a Unitarian Church, many of which have atheists/agnostics among their membership. That might be a compromise that works for your family.

10-27-2002, 04:04 AM	#6
Vicar Philip Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Cozy little chapel of me own Posts: 1,162	I certainly appreciate everyone's replies, and the situation has kind of resolved itself. My 13-year old happens to be studying evolution in school, and he had some questions about the bible (damn, I'm still breaking the habit of capitalising god and bible!). So, after my wife went to work last night, I told my son about my beliefs. But, I stressed that I don't want him to feel either way about god based solely on what his mother or I believe; I want him to decide for himself based on the evidence. If only my dad would have told me this years ago. He took it very well, and I saw him deeper in thought than I ever have. I also pulled up this link: <a href="http://www.infidels.org/~godlessheathen/kidshome.html" target="_blank">Godlessheathen's Index of Kids' Pages</a> and let him read all the articles there. I told him that for now, I thought it best that this information stay between me and him, that my wife need not know yet. Now I have to get up the guts to tell her I told him. Pathetic, right? But again, I didn't lay it out to him to represent my beliefs as the ONE TRUE WAY, only an alternative to christianity for him to consider [ October 27, 2002: Message edited by: x-xian ] [ October 27, 2002: Message edited by: x-xian ]</p>

10-27-2002, 04:25 AM	#7
Puck Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: A middle aged body. Posts: 3,459	Children are hard to lie to. Even if they never express it, they question in their hearts. Ya know how Barney (that purple dino) enchants little kids? It's because the show is happy and gentle. If Barney was doom and gloom you wouldn't be able to park a toddler in front of the TV like that. As much as I can't stand Barney, there's a lesson for parents there. Don't worry too much or take it too seriously. Your own enjoyment of life and lack of fear will show them much about your beliefs. Who wouldn't want to follow the beliefs of a happy parent as opposed to the parent who's scared to death of something invisible? And your wife? She needs time to adjust. Relax. And quit being sneaky! Of course you have a right to express your feelings to your own children, but perhaps you can slow down a bit? The written word is powerful, just talk to your kids if it comes up for now. Once everyone adjusts, including you, you will know how to handle things comfortablly.

10-27-2002, 04:37 AM	#8
Puck Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: A middle aged body. Posts: 3,459	And that Strumm' for Jesus thing? Your children are watching you. We can't just tell the truth as we see it, we must live it. Are you teaching them to say one thing and do another? Personally, I'd inform the church that I can no longer participate and they need to find someone else. I understand the importance of keeping ones word, but this doesn't look like some kind of serious committment compared to being honest.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.