Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Infinity Lover · 08-23-2002, 02:21 AM

Isn't it offensive to 'non-believers' to hear that God is love?
The'concept of God, is that he's a higher power, making us lower in relation. Is that love?
According to the story of the fall of man, he PUNISHED us with mortality, because there's something WRONG with us. Is that love?
The world's divided into disagreeing religious groups. Isn't love supposed to bind us?

Isn't saying God is love, using a precious word in vain? Isn't that the same as cursing?
I live to honour life, to honour love.
LOVE is love Goddamn it! May it please be okay for me to say that?

echidna · 08-23-2002, 02:50 AM

When a child places themselves in danger, a loving parent often responds in desperation with punishment to protect them the next time.

While killing them is a little extreme, maybe it works better if Heaven really is a great place.

That�s the closest I�ve been able to explain how a loving God can be such an arsehole � but it still doesn�t really work for me.

abe smith · 08-23-2002, 05:22 AM

"Love/lurve/laff/luv..." is another one of those damn human verbal fictions; invented to lead the credulous/gullible astray. How 'bout "'Love' is gobbidge." Rosalind, that boy(actor) pretending to be a girl pretending to be a boy, got it right.

Infinity Lover · 08-23-2002, 07:20 AM

LOVE is... a positive, shameless, honest, binding, caring, selfless attitude.

No really, try out the opposite...

Hate is a negative, embarrassing, hypocrite, destructive, uncaring, selfish attitude.

The definition remains open to improvement, but I'd say that has to be pretty damn close to the mark.

If we b.s. ourselves or each other when it comes to love... maybe that's because we don't have a proper definition for it. It's hard to get a grip on something abstract.

Blankman · 08-24-2002, 09:05 PM

I heard a lady on a christian radio show the other day say that a non-christian can not experience love. So, I guess we need to come up with a different term for those feeling us non-christians have. They also said that god loves my children more than I do. Huh? They have got to be talking about something else?

emphryio · 08-27-2002, 07:08 PM

What the hell is love? It certainly has different meanings. Therefore actually define it before you attempt to say anymore about it.

Is it:
1. I care more for ....'s happiness than my own? Therefore I love ....'s?
2. A blissful illogical happiness closely related to sex.
3. Anything you truly comprehend, you love. (There is nothing that is truly evil.)
4....?

When they say God is love or Jesus is love or whatever, are they referring to the third definition? That would make the most sense to me. But they're probably referring to the first definition in some manner that they can barely comprehend themselves.

dk · 08-27-2002, 08:18 PM

In Christianity, God humiliated his only Son to be crucified so people might be saved. I'll grant you this is tough love, but in this sense Christians believe God reaches out to all people with love beyond human comprehension, even an infinate love. God is infinate, God reached out with infinite love, therefore God is love.

Matthew 26:42 For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43 I was a stranger and you didn't take Me in; I was naked and you didn't clothe Me, sick and in prison and you didn't take care of Me.' 44 "Then they too will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or without clothes, or sick, or in prison, and not help You?' 45 "Then He will answer them, 'I assure you: Whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me either.' 46 "And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

It is interesting that Mother Teresa approach God by picking maggots out of the dying in Calcutta, the poorest of the poor. Her only mission was to offer a small portion of dignity to they dying.
That's what Christians mean by God is love.

Mark_Chid · 08-27-2002, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dk:
<strong>In Christianity, God humiliated his only Son to be crucified so people might be saved. I'll grant you this is tough love, but in this sense Christians believe God reaches out to all people with love beyond human comprehension, even an infinate love. God is infinate, God reached out with infinite love, therefore God is love.

Matthew 26:42 For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43 I was a stranger and you didn't take Me in; I was naked and you didn't clothe Me, sick and in prison and you didn't take care of Me.' 44 "Then they too will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or without clothes, or sick, or in prison, and not help You?' 45 "Then He will answer them, 'I assure you: Whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me either.' 46 "And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

It is interesting that Mother Teresa approach God by picking maggots out of the dying in Calcutta, the poorest of the poor. Her only mission was to offer a small portion of dignity to they dying.
That's what Christians mean by God is love.</strong>

Why does the Lord's Prayer start 'Our Father' if Jesus was God's only Son? If he's your father, and you are male, then you are also his son!

And anyway, wasn't Jesus actually God all along? So not only was he his own Son, but his pretend sacrifice was of himself (although it was no sacrifice at all because he knew he would be alive again in 3 days).

Anyway - for the 3 days that Jesus was dead, was God only 2 persons?

None of this stuff makes much sense when you start asking questions, does it?

Blankman · 08-27-2002, 09:29 PM

Emphryio: "When they say God is love or Jesus is love or whatever, are they referring to the third definition? That would make the most sense to me. But they're probably referring to the first definition in some manner that they can barely comprehend themselves."

Yes, This is why we need some more precise terms for the different types of love. The christian love = incomprehensible love (mainly because it doesn't make any sense, atleast to me)

dk · 08-27-2002, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark_Chid:
Why does the Lord's Prayer start 'Our Father' if Jesus was God's only Son? If he's your father, and you are male, then you are also his son!

Ephesians 5:25 "Husbands, love your wives, just as also Christ loved the church and gave Himself for her, "
The Church being the bride of Christ demonstrates the unity of God (Father, Son ), later in NT the Spirit follows from both the Father and Son. I doubt you want to read all the Biblical evidence but if you're interested here�s a source <a href="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15047a.htm" target="_blank">http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15047a.htm</a>

Quote:

And anyway, wasn't Jesus actually God all along? So not only was he his own Son, but his pretend sacrifice was of himself (although it was no sacrifice at all because he knew he would be alive again in 3 days).
Anyway - for the 3 days that Jesus was dead, was God only 2 persons?
None of this stuff makes much sense when you start asking questions, does it?

The Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit are 3 persons in the unity of God, all equal.

I won't pretend to understand God anymore than I might understand the Big Bang or gravity, there are many mysteries. But in human terms 1 man can be a father, husband and son ; at the same time, in the same person, but in a different senses.

[ August 27, 2002: Message edited by: dk ]</p>

08-23-2002, 02:21 AM	#1
Infinity Lover Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,047	LOVE is love (don't use the word in vain) Isn't it offensive to 'non-believers' to hear that God is love? The'concept of God, is that he's a higher power, making us lower in relation. Is that love? According to the story of the fall of man, he PUNISHED us with mortality, because there's something WRONG with us. Is that love? The world's divided into disagreeing religious groups. Isn't love supposed to bind us? Isn't saying God is love, using a precious word in vain? Isn't that the same as cursing? I live to honour life, to honour love. LOVE is love Goddamn it! May it please be okay for me to say that?

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08-23-2002, 02:50 AM	#2
echidna Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,832	When a child places themselves in danger, a loving parent often responds in desperation with punishment to protect them the next time. While killing them is a little extreme, maybe it works better if Heaven really is a great place. That�s the closest I�ve been able to explain how a loving God can be such an arsehole � but it still doesn�t really work for me.

08-23-2002, 05:22 AM	#3
abe smith Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: springfield, MA. USA Posts: 2,482	"Love/lurve/laff/luv..." is another one of those damn human verbal fictions; invented to lead the credulous/gullible astray. How 'bout "'Love' is gobbidge." Rosalind, that boy(actor) pretending to be a girl pretending to be a boy, got it right.

08-23-2002, 07:20 AM	#4
Infinity Lover Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,047	LOVE is... a positive, shameless, honest, binding, caring, selfless attitude. No really, try out the opposite... Hate is a negative, embarrassing, hypocrite, destructive, uncaring, selfish attitude. The definition remains open to improvement, but I'd say that has to be pretty damn close to the mark. If we b.s. ourselves or each other when it comes to love... maybe that's because we don't have a proper definition for it. It's hard to get a grip on something abstract.

08-24-2002, 09:05 PM	#5
Blankman Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Midwest Posts: 41	I heard a lady on a christian radio show the other day say that a non-christian can not experience love. So, I guess we need to come up with a different term for those feeling us non-christians have. They also said that god loves my children more than I do. Huh? They have got to be talking about something else?

08-27-2002, 07:08 PM	#6
emphryio Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: WV Posts: 4,369	What the hell is love? It certainly has different meanings. Therefore actually define it before you attempt to say anymore about it. Is it: 1. I care more for ....'s happiness than my own? Therefore I love ....'s? 2. A blissful illogical happiness closely related to sex. 3. Anything you truly comprehend, you love. (There is nothing that is truly evil.) 4....? When they say God is love or Jesus is love or whatever, are they referring to the third definition? That would make the most sense to me. But they're probably referring to the first definition in some manner that they can barely comprehend themselves.

08-27-2002, 08:18 PM	#7
dk Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Denver Posts: 1,774	In Christianity, God humiliated his only Son to be crucified so people might be saved. I'll grant you this is tough love, but in this sense Christians believe God reaches out to all people with love beyond human comprehension, even an infinate love. God is infinate, God reached out with infinite love, therefore God is love. Matthew 26:42 For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43 I was a stranger and you didn't take Me in; I was naked and you didn't clothe Me, sick and in prison and you didn't take care of Me.' 44 "Then they too will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or without clothes, or sick, or in prison, and not help You?' 45 "Then He will answer them, 'I assure you: Whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me either.' 46 "And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." It is interesting that Mother Teresa approach God by picking maggots out of the dying in Calcutta, the poorest of the poor. Her only mission was to offer a small portion of dignity to they dying. That's what Christians mean by God is love.

08-27-2002, 09:29 PM	#9
Blankman Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Midwest Posts: 41	Emphryio: "When they say God is love or Jesus is love or whatever, are they referring to the third definition? That would make the most sense to me. But they're probably referring to the first definition in some manner that they can barely comprehend themselves." Yes, This is why we need some more precise terms for the different types of love. The christian love = incomprehensible love (mainly because it doesn't make any sense, atleast to me)

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