Freethought & Rationalism Archive

snatchbalance · 05-28-2002, 03:47 PM

Here's the setup:

An adult couple(hetero) agrees to engage in intercourse.

Niether wants children.

They discuss birth control methods and agree on a course of action. Niether party wants to be sterilized. No method is 100% effective, but sterilization comes the closest.

They agree that in the unlikely event that the woman becomes pregnant, she will abort the zygot.

So..., the relationship results in pregnancy, and the woman decides that she does not want an abortion.

What are the man's responsibilities to the woman and the child?

SB

Toto · 05-28-2002, 04:01 PM

Legally, he's liable for child support for the next 18 years, unless he can get some other man to adopt the kid. Morally, I don't know. It's a tough question. Is it just theoretical?

snatchbalance · 05-28-2002, 04:32 PM

Toto,

My question is aimed at the ethics, not the legalities.

The set up is based on an actual situation.

SB

05-28-2002, 04:40 PM

If the woman decides not to abort it, even though they agreed to do so, I don't see how the man could be responsible. However, its really a question of could you let that kid live without a father? Its pretty unfair to the child, but I guess marrying the mother even if you don't love her would be even moreso unfair to both. I could live with myself if that happened, it would be the mothers descision, and her responsibility, she accepted it in the agreement originally.

seebs · 05-28-2002, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by snatchbalance:
<strong>
What are the man's responsibilities to the woman and the child?
</strong>

I'd say, ethically, he's stuck raising a kid. No prior agreement trumps the mom's right to raise the kid... and the dad *is* responsible.

In the end, if you can't take the risk of kids, don't fuck.

I have no objections to birth control - but nonetheless, if it fails, you just bought yourself a kid.

bonduca · 05-28-2002, 04:48 PM

If this is casual sex, I'd say the child is my responsibility, if I decide to bear it and raise it.

Straight Hate · 05-28-2002, 05:13 PM

On the issue of ethics I'm a lost kid fumbling in the dark, but my reponse: If an agreement was made beforehand by both parties that any accidental pregnancy would be aborted, I would argue that the man would not be morally/ethically responsible for the child. The female broke the 'contract' by choosing the keep the child, and as such, should bear that burden. You can't make an agreement, break it, and then expect the other party to pay for it.

That's just a male perspective, though. Given the nature of the situation, a female may very well have a different view, as male played an undeniable, pivitol role in the scenario.

Regardless, I would take responsibility for the child in this situation. No matter how I could slice it, that is my kid, and I wouldn't turn my back on them.

Monkeybot · 05-28-2002, 05:15 PM

I think this might be better off in Moral Foundations and Principles.

Arrowman · 05-28-2002, 05:52 PM

If the agreement was as clear and mutually understood as you present it, then I think the man has no moral/ethical responsibility. To go further - if the woman has decided the renege on the agreement, but is not prepared to take on the whole responsibility for the child, then she is being quite hypocritical.

However - it would be best if the child knew his/her father, indeed I believe a child has the right to know both their biological parents. And therefore I would hope that the father can find a way of meeting the child's needs in that area without necessarily taking on major responsibility for the child's upbringing. Trying to have cake and eat it too? Perhaps.

Viti · 05-28-2002, 06:32 PM

Well...I think if I decided to renege on an explicit agreement, I would take full responsibility for that. I would of course give the father the choice of being involved, but don't think it would be ethical to force him. In any other situation where there are risks, parties must live with agreements....ethically this is the same as far as I am concerned.

My SIL decided to continue an unplanned pregnancy against the fathers wishes. She made him sign away all parental rights as she was afraid he would try to come into the picture some time down the road, or that his parents would try to push for grandparents rights (some states have laws in regards to grandparents)

05-28-2002, 03:47 PM	#1
snatchbalance Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: CT Posts: 333	Sexual Ethics Here's the setup: An adult couple(hetero) agrees to engage in intercourse. Niether wants children. They discuss birth control methods and agree on a course of action. Niether party wants to be sterilized. No method is 100% effective, but sterilization comes the closest. They agree that in the unlikely event that the woman becomes pregnant, she will abort the zygot. So..., the relationship results in pregnancy, and the woman decides that she does not want an abortion. What are the man's responsibilities to the woman and the child? SB

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05-28-2002, 04:01 PM	#2
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Legally, he's liable for child support for the next 18 years, unless he can get some other man to adopt the kid. Morally, I don't know. It's a tough question. Is it just theoretical?

05-28-2002, 04:32 PM	#3
snatchbalance Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: CT Posts: 333	Toto, My question is aimed at the ethics, not the legalities. The set up is based on an actual situation. SB

05-28-2002, 04:40 PM	#4
himynameisPwn Guest Posts: n/a	If the woman decides not to abort it, even though they agreed to do so, I don't see how the man could be responsible. However, its really a question of could you let that kid live without a father? Its pretty unfair to the child, but I guess marrying the mother even if you don't love her would be even moreso unfair to both. I could live with myself if that happened, it would be the mothers descision, and her responsibility, she accepted it in the agreement originally.

05-28-2002, 04:48 PM	#6
bonduca Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: . Posts: 1,653	If this is casual sex, I'd say the child is my responsibility, if I decide to bear it and raise it.

05-28-2002, 05:13 PM	#7
Straight Hate Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Winnipeg, Canada Posts: 4,171	On the issue of ethics I'm a lost kid fumbling in the dark, but my reponse: If an agreement was made beforehand by both parties that any accidental pregnancy would be aborted, I would argue that the man would not be morally/ethically responsible for the child. The female broke the 'contract' by choosing the keep the child, and as such, should bear that burden. You can't make an agreement, break it, and then expect the other party to pay for it. That's just a male perspective, though. Given the nature of the situation, a female may very well have a different view, as male played an undeniable, pivitol role in the scenario. Regardless, I would take responsibility for the child in this situation. No matter how I could slice it, that is my kid, and I wouldn't turn my back on them.

05-28-2002, 05:15 PM	#8
Monkeybot Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: North Carolina Posts: 8,102	I think this might be better off in Moral Foundations and Principles.

05-28-2002, 05:52 PM	#9
Arrowman Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Adelaide, South Australia Posts: 1,358	If the agreement was as clear and mutually understood as you present it, then I think the man has no moral/ethical responsibility. To go further - if the woman has decided the renege on the agreement, but is not prepared to take on the whole responsibility for the child, then she is being quite hypocritical. However - it would be best if the child knew his/her father, indeed I believe a child has the right to know both their biological parents. And therefore I would hope that the father can find a way of meeting the child's needs in that area without necessarily taking on major responsibility for the child's upbringing. Trying to have cake and eat it too? Perhaps.

05-28-2002, 06:32 PM	#10
Viti Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Down South Posts: 12,879	Well...I think if I decided to renege on an explicit agreement, I would take full responsibility for that. I would of course give the father the choice of being involved, but don't think it would be ethical to force him. In any other situation where there are risks, parties must live with agreements....ethically this is the same as far as I am concerned. My SIL decided to continue an unplanned pregnancy against the fathers wishes. She made him sign away all parental rights as she was afraid he would try to come into the picture some time down the road, or that his parents would try to push for grandparents rights (some states have laws in regards to grandparents)

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