dk

Originally posted by raistlinjones:
I agree with they synopsis of raistlinjones, as far as it goes.

• Jesus says to the apostles
  John 20 22-23 'Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained'.
• Jesus says to Peter.
  Matthew 26:19 "And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven".
• Jesus says to the Pharisees, Apostles and crowd says,
  Matthew 12:31: “Because of this, I tell you, people will be forgiven every sin and blasphemy, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.”
• Baited by the Pharisees to affirm the OT Law, hence break the Roman Law
  John 8 4-11 ‘Teacher," they said to Him, "this woman was caught in the act of committing adultery. In the law Moses commanded us to stone such women. So what do You say?" They asked this to trap Him, in order that they might have evidence to accuse Him. Jesus stooped down and started writing on the ground with His finger. When they persisted in questioning Him, He stood up and said to them, "The one without sin among you should be the first to throw a stone at her." Then He stooped down again and continued writing on the ground. When they heard this, they left one by one, starting with the older men. Only He was left, with the woman in the center. When Jesus stood up, He said to her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" "No one, Lord," she answered. "Neither do I condemn you," said Jesus. "Go, and from now on do not sin any more."’

Clearly the only unforgivable sin is against the Holy Spirit. So as I Christian I don’t have anything but empathy for gay people, and abhorrence at the suffering perpetrated by the gay lifestyle. I see in homosexual cultural a pathology that alienates people from self, family, friends and moral law. Gay people, and fornicating heterosexuals, need to fear exposure to diseases that have been epidemic in the gay community for 25 years. Christians by and large work, pray, vote and pay taxes to control and cure the epidemic. I think its quite possible civilization will loose the race against MDR-microbes bred in gay communities. Should a pandemic of MDR-TB or some other deadly staff get loosed from the gay community then I would expect good Christians to protect gays from any retribution that might follow. The question I find most pressing and almost prescient is, “Why does the Bible place a taboo on homosexual conduct?”.

Any thoughts?

Mageth

I see in homosexual cultural a pathology that alienates people from self, family, friends and moral law. ...
“Why does the Bible place a taboo on homosexual conduct?”

I see in Christian culture based on Biblical morals a pathology that alienates gays from self, family and friends!

Darwin's Finch

dk: "Why does the Bible place a taboo on homosexual conduct?"

Hell, don't ask me. I'm still trying to figure out God's beef with blended fabrics and shellfish.

pug846

Dk said:

My first thought was (edited by a moderator), but I’ll try to go into more depth here.

What is this mysterious “lifestyle?” Straight go about their day and do whatever, but gay people have “lifestyles.” Do you understand the simple concept that not all gay people live the same way? Do you understand that gay people, like any large group of people, live their lives in different ways?

Gee…let’s examine the cause of why gay people are alienated from their self, family and friends. Could it be because of (edited by a moderator) such as yourself who tell people that there is something wrong with them for being gay? Could it be because we live in a culture where their sexuality is a not accepted as “natural?” Do you see the vicious cycle (edited by a moderator) like you perpetrate? You wonder why they don’t accept themselves, all the while telling them that they shouldn’t accept their sexuality, and then when they have issues because of this external pressure from society, you use it as proof against them that being gay is “wrong” since they don’t accept themselves. Congrats. And please, shove off with your “moral law.”

Do you (edited by a moderator) understand the simple point that there are actually gay people who have responsible sex? Can you please try and comprehend that simple point? Are you capable of that? Do you understand that having gay sex does not magically form diseases? There is no magic asshole virus that spontaneously forms when someone’s penis goes into someone’s ass.

Oh really? I’m reminded of certain Christian Presidents who have done nothing to help cure “the epidemic.” And please, where is your empirical proof that Christians, by and large, do anything to cure the epidemic?

Well, it already had taboos on most of the other harmless activities, like having clothes that had been made with different fabrics, so whoever wrote the taboo about homosexuality figured why not add yet another stupid, useless provision?

That would be my guess.

[ September 03, 2002: Message edited by: The Other Michael ]</p>

Corwin

As I understand it.... the term that's usually translated as 'abomination' in english is a very specific word. It refers to things which are forbidden in a RELIGIOUS context. Taking this into account, the prohibition on homosexuality makes a hell of a lot more sense.

It's not a blanket prohibition on homosexuality... it's a prohibition of greek social/sexual/religious practices. (Such as the orgies, gay and straight, in the cult of Dionysius and Aphrodite... as well as the notorious pederasty of the Athenians.)

Of course that's too complex for christians.... so they settle for gaybashing.

raistlinjones

I can understand asking this from a religio-historical viewpoint, but from within a purely christian context i fail to see what kind of answer you would really expect? Are we trying to second-guess God here, trying to figure out his reasons for "placing a taboo on homosexual conduct?" That seems like an exercise in futility.

[ September 03, 2002: Message edited by: raistlinjones ]</p>

The Other Michael

Hey folks,

As your friendly forum Moderator, let me request that some of you lighten up a bit.

I've edited ad hom comments from two posts this afternoon. And you know what? Once they were removed the posts still seem to get the original point across.

Please continue the discussion without calling anyone names. Feel free to tell someone (and more importantly DEMONSTRATE why) that you think their ideas/comments are ludicrous (if indeed they are), but do so in more civil fashion, lest this thread suffer the righteous wrath of the moderators.

I think the thread is moving along in an interesting fashion - let's work together to keep it moving along.

thanks,
Michael
MF&P Moderator, Second Class

excreationist

Extra questions for Christians

If you think gays shouldn't receive any punishment from the government, even though God commanded that they receive the death penalty earlier, what about prostitution? Should prostitution be illegal or legal? (for Bible verses see <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=52&t=000297" target="_blank">this thread</a>)
In the Bible, prostitution is looked down upon by God, but he never prescribes a punishment for it - only if a daughter of a priest becomes a prostitute - then the punishment is being burnt alive. So overall, it seems that God thinks prostitution isn't as bad as gay sex.
In the NT, Jesus talked with prostitutes and they never seemed to be in any danger of being punished (unlike the adulteress)... but I think he disapproved of their lifestyle.

So the question is about whether prostitution should be legal or not. It seems that Christians think that gay sex should be legal and if they think prostitution should be illegal then that is inconsistent I think. If it isn't inconsistent they should explain why.

excreationist

Corwin - what are you talking about? That passage was part of God's list of commands to the Israelites while they were in the desert.

The passage says:

Leviticus 20:13 - "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

This means any old man... it doesn't say anything about gay Greeks or gay people from other religions. Those from other religions are covered in other laws anyway.

"An abomination" is just what the KJV says - other translations use the word "detestable".

As similar verse in the OT is:
Leviticus 18:22 - "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."
Then it talks about beastiality. I think it would be talking against beastiality in general (and gay sex in general) since it doesn't say that it is only against Greeks or those from other religions, etc, who do those things.

Another passage:
Romans 1:26-27, 32:
I guess you want Christians to be more tolerant - but it seems that they usually think homosexuality should be legal, so that is pretty good. I think it is better for people to come to believe that homosexuality is ok by their own judgement and disagree with Biblical morality than for their view of Biblical morality to be tweaked so that their view that Biblical morality is flawless is reinforced...

pug846

Yeah, yeah...I'll try and be nicer.