orpheus last chant

i hope this was not disscused before but here goes.

i was reading the karamazov brothers at the recomendation of a theist. that was suppose to convince me to not be atheist. the fact was that mr ivan was too much of a nihilist for me, and had nothing in common with most atheists nowadays. for me, i think i find this book makeing a great case for atheism, because teh problems that it presents for christianity are stronger than any fuzzy wuzzy desire to believe from the not so mentally sane and physicly healthy fever exsausted ivan who decides inside his halucinations that his belief prevents his from doing that good that he feels he wants to do. the death fo the little boy and teh crisis fo his father is scarsely solved by religeous tragic hope.


on the other hand, smeardeakov presents an interesting point. it says in the bible that if you have faith you can move mountains, faith heals diffent illnesses and so on. in the new testament faith does miracles. but now miracles have dissapeared. many christians say that they have faith, that faith is jsut soem mystical thing that makes you see the bible correctly. but i can only deduct that no one has faith, because no one moves mountains, do they?

and it says if you have faith as big as a pee you will move mountains.

so no one has faith, not even monks secluded in some barren place, priests, devout fundys etc.

agnawstick

They don't have faith in the bible, that is for sure.

In Matthew 5-7, Jesus allegedly told not his 12 disciples, but a crowd of "civilians" how to live their lives. Very explicit as a matter of fact. Renounce wealth. Renounce possessions. I refuse to take any christian seriously until they take the Sermon on the Mount seriously.

Any "christian" who has a jacuzzi, a humvee, prays in public, donates to charity in public, does not love everybody with all their heart, and makes no real effort to do these things, is a liar and a hypocrite. They don't really believe that they have to do what "their saviour" told them to do.

It is mental masturbation. They believe in covering their bases. Go to their huge public church, and profess their faith in public(even though Jesus said not to do so), donate money for the new golden dome, and drive back home to their 3,500 square foot home, safely ignoring dying babies in Afghanistan. That new Sauna steam shower is more important than tending to Jesus' flock of course.

The "serious" ones, actually donate 10% of their earnings to the church. Yes, instead of getting rid of it all like Jesus told them to, and to let God take care of them, like he takes care of the birds, giving them food to eat, sunlight for the flowers, they take $10,000 of their $100,000 and give it to put in towards a new video display system for the church, instead of purchasing rice, flour, and oil for those who are starving.

It is the world's greatest collective joke. None of these people believe Jesus. They say they believe "in Jesus". But they don't do what he told them to do. They have no faith. They have fear. They are terrified of death, contrary to all the grand talk about the wonderful afterlife. They fight death with a passion. They try to hedge their bets with Jesus light. I will go to church, proclaim my allegiance, and that is basically it. It is betting on a horse to show in the Kentucky derby. I will do some of what the bible tells me to do, but heck no, I am not giving everything up, walking the earth, and tending to God's sheep. 10% is enough. In case this Jesus thing doesn't work out, I want to be able to be afford my house, my plasma tv, my 3 car garage.

Rousseau_CHN

Brothers Karamazov is a disappointment. It is a very disorganized novel. I don't know how anyone could recommend it. I suggest Fyodor's "The Idiot" and "Crime and Punishment." Two excellent novels which upon finishing will make anyone a better person than he already is.

How was Christianity defended by Brothers Karamzov. I do not know. I am in agreement that it did more harm to Christianity. For example, when Alyosha's mentor-priest died, there was so much intrigue and deception in the convent. That you would think you were in a whore house rather than a monastery.

I could list more, but what really got me interested in this thread is that you claim "no one really has faith".

You haven't met my mother-in-law.