Philosoft

Au revior, Eldy.

I hope you and your dogma have a nice long life together.

sandlewood

Well, the point was that if differentiation of stem cells is evidence of a spirit, and if they differentiate the same way in animals, then animals must have a spirit also. I’m not sure why you think atheists have a lot of describing to do but that you don’t. I think anyone who makes a claim—theist or atheist—needs to describe it.

Sorry if we chased you off. It can be frustrating to post your ideas and have other people knock them around and seem to gang up on you. But this is a place where people debate, so you have to defend your own assertions. Since most people here are atheists, you will tend to get ganged up on. It might help to read a bit first.

Theli

Eldy...

Yes, the stemcells. Have you ever heard of DNA?

Fountains?
I have heard of the genepool, but I didn't know there was a fountain in that pool.

In what sense?
I don't mean to be picky, but you haven't really told me wich term you are using, and what relevance it has.

Eldy

From Eldy: You folks have been more than kind with me, and I appreciate that. One can say that DNA motivates and directs the cells, but then one has not said much more than the original statement that man is a spiritual being.

I don't mind being ganged up on, or knocked around a bit. It is worth it to be able to exchange ideas.

While I am a theistic evolutionist, one might say, I believe the evolution of the earth and its creatures would not have evolved without theistic intervention. There is evidence that life is living on the planet earth.

Animal life must have been BROUGHT here from somewhere, for it to get its start, so that evolution could take place. The "heated pool" of genes, hit by lightening does not seem to be something that would create much faith. My believer is not that good, I reckon.

From animal life, which started probably a half billion years ago, you suppose, and must have been "upstepped" by divine intervention to cause "the first human being" to "appear" on the earth.

AS I say, human beings, having the spirit of life in them, are light-years advanced to the smartest ape Ms. Goodall could muster up.

Thus my belief that they, we, are spiritual beings. And being spiritual beings, we have the desire to be loving, king, gentle, patient, kind, generous, and gracious.

Your desire to be kind to me, such an ignorant specimen of the race, is because you are a spiritual being, who recognizes a need to be kind.

It was sad when the scientists who studied the chimps discovered later that they were killers, cannibals, and plunderers. Seems the fleshly nature is found in both animals and human beings.

Best to you.

Oh, I should soon list some of the things I cannot answer, or have no satisfactory answer for, as a believer. Such as the one: "Why do bad things happen to god people?" Do you have an answer?

Eldy

From Eldy: Oops, I meant to say, "to good people."

philechat

Reply to last question:

Unfortunately there is no good theistic answer to the argument from evil. Say an omnipotent and omnibenevolent being exists, she would be willing and able to prevent evil from happening to good people. But evil and suffering is everywhere in this world, in the animal sphere as well as the human sphere, and there is no explanation to the "why" answer as far as the naturalist is concerned, while the "why" must be answered if a willful diety in charge of lives exists.

The only answer from the non-theist to the problem of evil is to try to find a solution to alleviate it. Science is a solution-finding technique, attempting to predict nature and control it.

When you said chimps are cannibalistic, violent, and cruel you forget that humans are often the cruelest creatures on earth. While most carnivorous animals kill other animals mainly for food, and fight mainly for mates and territories, humans would kill millions just because of ideological or cultural differences. To say humans are more loving or kind than animals is a gross distortion of reality.

It does not mean humans are hopeless or unchangable, however. Only that they are often as stupid as the beasts. But those who strive to solve problems and create reality are in my opinion more respectable than those who cling on the romantic notion that humans are all kind and loving and (gasp) spiritual.