Biff the unclean

Tell us, how would you allow humanity to be saved
The view that keeps coming up here is ridiculous when you consider that God is supposed to be the all powerful creator. That should mean that things happen the way he created them to happen. That means that it was God himself who decided that the payment for sin was suffering and death, that it was God who made up that rule. God requires suffering because God wants suffering--nobody is making up the rules for him, he makes them himself.
He could have just as well made it the rule that the payment for sin is love and laughter. "For He so loved the world that he sent his only begotten Son to have a hot fudge sundae, with chopped nuts and a cherry on top."
He makes the rules, if they are that he wants a human sacrifice to appease his anger instead of something pleasant it means that you believe in a monster.

Mageth

Satan? Satan isn't in the Garden 'o Eden. It was a snake.

You know that, I know that, I'm sure QoS knows that, but most Christians don't. Satan has been retrofitted into a serpent by Christianity.

Magus55

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Mageth

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Right. That's a great example of how Christianity retrofitted Satan into the serpent. Thanks, Magus!

Godless Dave

That's a pretty flimsy connection with the serpent in Genesis. "Serpent" is a common insult in many cultures. Rev 12:9 calls Satan a serpent but does not identify him with the Genesis serpent. Nor is Satan called a serpent in any other part of the Bible.

Biff the unclean

Rev. says Dragon
Gen. says Snake

Snakes are not Dragons. Dragons have legs and wings. Snakes do not.

Mageth

The serpent in Genesis should not be conflated with Satan. Genesis should be read and understood as the myth it is. The serpent, in Genesis and in many other ancient mythologies, is symbolic of rebirth, as it sheds its skin and thus symbolically dies and is "reborn". The moon is another such symbol commonly found in mythologies, going through a death and rebirth cycle every lunar month. The serpent enticed Eve into a kind of spiritual "rebirth" through the symbolic eating of the fruit, introducing duality, the concept of opposites (good and evil, male and female (remember, they recognized their "nakedness", and each other's nakedness and differences, after eating the fruit), life and death, etc.) into the human psyche.

Jimmy Higgins

Trying to remember.
Revelations serpent = ophis
Genesis serpent = nachash

But more importantly, the punishment bestowed on the serpent in The Fall noted that the serpent crawled on its belly, like a snake does (Satan doesn't), have offspring, like a snake does (Satan doesn't), "eat dust", (Satan doesn't eat). For a group so set on literal translations, they really know when to plug in symbolism when needed.

winstonjen

I wonder when Magus will answer our responses to god's plan of forgiveness and the 'entrance exam' to heaven. The current one makes no sense. Allowing someone to become the President's aide because of the Monica Lewinsky Method (TM) is not very fair, is it?

And notice how Magus answers the easy questions with scripture - it's like Christians are not ALLOWED to think for themselves.

Mageth

And notice how Magus answers the easy questions with scripture - it's like Christians are not ALLOWED to think for themselves.

Well, they're not. It says in Phillipians and in Corinthians tha Xians are to have "the mind of Christ". I'm sure Magus could trot out the scriptures.