Geoff Hudson

The Recognitions of Clement

Introduction

In the following text, I use square brackets [..] for proposed editor’s changes or additions to original text, and curly brackets {..} for proposed original text that is not in the extanct version.

The extanct Recognitions of Clement is the heavily edited version of Josephus’ life from the ages of 16 to 19 (CE 53-56). The original text of Recognitions was written in the contemporary spirit world. It was removed from Josephus’ Life and subsequently edited to hide the fact that Josephus was the missionary Paul. Typically, the editor makes a number of reversals to the original history.

Book I.

Chapter I. – [Clement's] {Josephus’} Early History; Doubts.

I [Clement] {Josephus}, who was born in the city of [Rome] {Jerusalem}, [was] {had} from my earliest age a [lover of chastity] {spirit of truth}; while [the bent of my mind] {my spirit of deceit} held me bound [as] with [chains] {spirits of anxiety and sorrow}. For [a thought] {the spirit of truth} that was in me [-whence originating, I cannot tell -] constantly led me to [think of my condition of mortality, and to] discuss such questions as these: Whether there be for [me] {my spirit} any [life] {existence} after death, or whether [I am] {my spirit is} to be wholly annihilated: whether [I did not exist] {my spirit existed} before I was born, and whether there shall be no remembrance [of this life] {by my spirit} after death, and so [the boundlessness of time] {God} shall consign all [things] {spirits} to [oblivion and silence] {dissolution}; so that not only [we shall] {our spirits} cease to be, but there shall be no remembrance that [we] {our spirits} have ever been. This also I revolved in my [mind] {spirit of truth}: when [the world] was {my spirit} made, or what was before it was made, or whether it has existed from eternity? For it seemed certain, that if it had been made, it must be [doomed] {subject} to dissolution; and if it be dissolved, what is to be afterwards? - unless, perhaps, [all things shall be buried in oblivion and silence, or] something shall be, which the [mind] {spirit} of man cannot now conceive.

Notes:
1. Josephus’ Life 2 has: “when I was a child, and about fourteen years of age, I was commended by all for the love I had to learning” – where “the love I had for learning” is a Graecism for “the spirit of learning I had” or “the spirit of truth I had.”
2. [Clement] {Josephus} takes it for granted that he has a spirit.

Geoff Hudson

Chapter II. – His (Josephus’) Distress.

While I was continually revolving in my [mind] {spirits} these and such like questions, [suggested I know not how, I] {my spirit of truth} was pining away wonderfully through excess of [grief] {my spirit of deceit}; and, what was worse, if at any time I thought to cast [aside] {out} such [cares] {spirits}, as being [of little use] {impure}, the [waves] {spirit of truth} rose all the higher upon me. For I had in me that most excellent companion, who would not suffer me to rest [– the desire of immortality] for, as the subsequent issue showed, [and the grace of Almighty God directed], this [bent of mind] {spirit of truth} led me to the [quest] {Spirit} of [truth] {God} [, and the acknowledgment of the true light]; and hence it came to pass, that ere long I pitied those whom formerly in my [ignorance] {spirit of deceit} I believed to be [happy] {pure}.

Note:
1. The spirit language behind the passage is almost self-evident. A spirit is “cast” “out” of a body, not “aside”. A spirit can come out of a body “rise-up” “upon” it and not give it “rest”. A spirit can be like a “companion” in a body.

Geoff

offa

Offa; That's quite interesting, however, Saul of Tarsus was born in 17 CE and Josephus was born in 25 CE. Clement was born in 10 CE.
When Jesus was 12 years old he was actually 12+11 or 23 years old. He attended some kind of schooling as did Josephus. The three days later that Joseph and Mary returned was actually 3 years with a year being a Jubilee day. Jesus then took a bar exam (as did Josephus) when he was 25 years old. Jesus was not teaching the elders, he was answering their questions (as did Josephus). Your comparable stories are just protocol.

Geoff Hudson

Offa, I think your date of Josephus' birth is incorrect. According to Life 1, he was born in the first year of the reign of Caius Caesar (Caligula) which was 37 CE.

How do you arrive at 17 CE for Saul (Paul)?

Geoff

offa

Geoff Hudson
posted December 06, 2002 01:17 AM
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quote:
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Originally posted by offa:
Offa; That's quite interesting, however, Saul of Tarsus was born in 17 CE and
Josephus was born in 25 CE.
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Geoff Hudson
Offa, I think your date of Josephus' birth is incorrect. According to Life 1, he
was born in the first year of the reign of Caius Caesar (Caligula) which was
37 CE.

Offa; Since Josephus attended a similiar school to the one Jesus attended we
must add 11 years to his age with his first 12 years counting as year 1.
One of the ways I arrive at the twelve year rule is from the footnote
at the bottom of page 42 of The Works of Josephus).


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Geoff Hudson
How do you arrive at 17 CE for Saul (Paul)?

Geoff

Offa; Here is an excerpt from Jesus The Man p. 591.


In A 19:22, at a date shown by the chronology to be September
AD 57, Paul epeschen chronon, "had a generation (of
40 years)". This suggests a birth date of September AD 17.
In September AD 53 he was married (cut his hair, A 18:18),
and, as he now followed the Way, with its celibate rule,
he was aged thirty-six.

Offa, of course I do not have a clue about Greek. I thought
your post was quite interesting and that is the reason I
checked Clement's and Paul's birthdays. Unfortunately, the
only reference I had on hand was Barbara Thiering and she
has a way of turning "biblical scholars" off.

Thanks, Offa

Geoff Hudson

Offa,

Re. your previous post. If you don't believe BT is deluded, just read her latest interpretation of the Lord's prayer - as she says, "as no-one has ever seen it before". It amazes me that one or two scholars who ought to have more sense still communicate with this high priestess of pesher interpretation. This says it all:

"Christian Pope, you are a priest in a sanctuary, not in a temple.

You become a priest by merit, not from levitical birth.

May your universal institution succeed. May its non-monastic form be established. It has both priests and laity.

Hold a daily Eucharist at noon for celibate laymen.

There are no initiation fees. Jewish Christians do not pay fees.

Do not permit a severe ascetic discipline. Do not involve us in warfare."


Added in derivative texts:

"You have the right to appoint archbishops, cardinals and bishops. The Restoration will come."

<a href="http://http:www.groups.yahoo.com/group/qumran_origin" target="_blank">http:www.groups.yahoo.com/group/qumran_origin</a>

Geoff

offa

Geoff; I think you just shot me in the foot! You asked me for a reference and I gave it to you. If you don't like the message kill the messenger, right! But, hit me in the heart ... my feet hurt.
I clicked on the url you posted but it would not come up, but I will go at it again, I like to read her. What Thiering writes is very interesting. I have said over and again, I do not believe everything she writes. Your original post was asking for opinions on what you wrote and I replied about the birthdates of Josephus, Clement, and Paul. If you would like I should write "Clement and Paul were both born in 10 CE, isn't that a coincidence? and, that looney Dr. Barbara Thiering is a looney, she has Paul born in 17 CE, so he was not, she is never right about anything".
Now, can we be friends ... I wholeheartedly agree with what you write.

Thanks, Offa

[ December 08, 2002: Message edited by: offa ]</p>

Geoff Hudson

Offa,

Please accept my apologies. I have been on the receiving end of Mrs Theiring's somewhat caustic tongue.

Geoff

offa

Geoff, likewise, please accept my apologies. I am very humbled. Please realize that you may very well be correct. Wow, you really puffed me up! Do you know Thiering! Or, is there another debate somewhere? She has a caustic tongue! Oh, I probably do also. Today I worked out in the cold and got dirty and muddy. A scholar would not do that. I do enjoy what you write.

thanks, offa

Geoff Hudson

Chapter III. – His (Josephus’) Dissatisfaction with the Schools of the [Philosophers] {Pharisees or Sects}.

Having therefore such a [bent of mind] (spirit of truth) from my earliest years, the desire of learning something led me to frequent the schools of the [philosophers] {Pharisees}. There I saw that nought else was done, save that doctrines were asserted and controverted without end, contests were waged, and the arts of syllogisms and the subtleties of conclusions were discussed. If at any time the doctrine of the immortality of the [soul] {spirit} prevailed, I was thankful; if at any time it was impugned, I went away sorrowful[. Still, neither] {because that} doctrine had the [power] {spirit} of truth [over my heart]. This only I understood, that [opinions and definitions of things] {spirits} were accounted [true] {pure} or [false] {impure}, not in accordance with their [nature] {purity} [and the truth of the arguments], but in proportion to the talents of those who [supported] {possessed} them. And I was all the more tortured in [the bottom of] my [heart] {spirit of truth}, because I was neither able to [lay hold of] {receive} any of those [things] {spirits} which were spoken as [firmly established] {pure}, nor was I able to lay aside the [desire of inquiry] {spirit of truth}; but the more I endeavoured to neglect and despise them, so much the more eagerly, as I have said, did [a desire of this sort] {the spirit of truth}, creeping in upon me secretly as with a kind of pleasure, take possession of my [heart and mind] {body}.

Notes:

1. The editor of Recognitions uses the word “philosophers” similar to the way the editor of Josephus’ War (2.8.2) refers to three “philosophical” sects of the Jews: the Pharisees, Sadducees and the Essenes. Life 2 has Josephus say “when I was about sixteen years old, I had a [mind] {spirit} to make trial of the several sects that were among us.” As Josephus also went [into the desert] {to Rome} at the age of 16, the words “to make trial” can only mean that he only investigated the pros and cons of the various sects. He would not have had time to be a member of any.

2. In particular, there were two schools, or “houses” of Pharisees that were started about 30 BCE. These were the more strict school of Shammai, and the more liberal school of Hillel. These two groups had long and sometimes bitter disputes. In the words of Recognitions, “Doctrines were asserted and controverted without end”; “contests were waged”; “the arts of syllogisms and the subtleties of conclusions were discussed”. A syllogism is a form of reasoning in which a conclusion is drawn from two propositions with a common term which does not appear in the conclusion. For example, the two houses of Pharisees are said to have argued for over two and a half years over the propositions whether it would have been better if Adam (presumably meaning Man) had never been created (first propositon), only to agree that now he had been created (second propositon), he ought to examine his deeds (conclusion).(Anchor Bible Dictionary, Volume 5, Page 1158, Shammai, School of).

3. Josephus’ questioning concerned his own spirit. Was it immortal? What would make it pure for God? His spirit of truth was “creeping in” “taking possession of his body” – the spirit language again.

Geoff