Jamie_L

I was thinking about Free Will and Divine Judgement the other day.

Nearly all versions of Christianity include a concept of the immortal soul, and that you will lose said immortal soul if you are not "saved". The definitions of "losing your immortal soul" and the criteria for being "saved" vary wildly, but the basic consept is always there. Do what is "right", and you will live eternally with God. Do what is wrong, and your existence will one day end.

Most Christians also have a concept of Free Will, and usually insist that God doesn't interfere with the mortal world because it would deny Free Will. Yet, this Free Will always has a threat hanging over it - the threat of non-existence (losing eternal life). Most Christians, however, do not feel this "do right or perish" voilates Free Will.

If that's true, then I pose this question:

If God passed judgement on sinners while they were still alive, and immediately ended the existence of those who did not repent, would that violate Free Will?

It seems to me that if the threat of non-existence does not violate Free Will, it should be irrelevant when and how that threat is carried out. It should be no different if God waits until after you are dead or if God strikes you down the minute you commit a greivous sin and do not repent.

And if that's true, then God should be able to strike down all sorts of nasty people without causing more harm to Free Will than he already does with his "eternal life" scenario.

Any thoughts?

Jamie

ManM

I know very few Christians who believe people will get zapped out of existence. Your audience for this discussion might be quite limited.

Jamie_L

ManM,

I think you misunderstand. I'm not saying people do get zapped out of existence. I'm saying, if they were, would that be any different (vis a vis Free Will) from getting "zapped" after you die?

Jamie

kkholiday

Jamie,

I don't know many Christians who believe you will get "zapped" into non-existance before or after your body dies. I think most Christians, even the fundamentalists, believe that whoever wasn't "saved" or worthy enough for heaven or whatever, go to hell where they still very much exist and are in constant state of torment. Those souls in hell are in complete suffering and would probably rather not exist, but they will still live on throughout eternity just as the souls in heaven, yada yada yada



Holiday

spacedOut

From the Christian point of view, it appears that God values our free will only to a point (physical death). After that, no more free will. One Xtian argument I really don't get is that God gave humans free will because he didn't want a bunch of robots - He wanted us humans to make the choice to love him.

Well, what about the afterlife? Do I have to forfeit my free will (and become a "robot") to get into heaven? When I've been there 10,000 years, what if I decide I want a beer?

Sounds like a lousy set up to me.

Jamie_L

kholiday,

I think we're getting side-tracked. I think I'm confusing the issue by trying to encompass a lot of different Christian viewpoints on what happens to "sinners". Let me try to be brief:

General Christian view: Something "good" happens to you after you die if you are "saved". Something "bad" happens to you after you die if you are not "saved".

This, it is said, does not interfere with Free Will.

My question: IF something "bad" happened to you immediately when you do something that makes you "unsaved", would that violate Free Will? If so, why?

My proposition: The only difference between these two scenarios is the point in time at which the "bad" thing happens. So, neither should violate Free Will. If that's the case, God should be able to intervene in this world in all kinds of ways without violating Free Will.

Jamie

spurly

If you decide you want a beer, have a beer. Drinking alcohol is never condemned in the Scripture. What is condemned is drunkenness - letting the alcohol control you.

Kevin

spacedOut

Will I have the choice to get drunk, or will God automatically cut me off after two?

spurly

Here's where I think the difference comes in. I think you will have the choice to get drunk, however you will not want to. You will not want to do anything that puts stress on your relationship with God.

(Note. This is just my opinion. However I do think it is a rather good one )

Kevin

spacedOut

Hmmm. So, once we get to heaven we will in essence not want to do anything that will displease God. So I believe the question reverts back to: why didn't God make us that way in the first place so we would all get to go to heaven...