Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Shake · 09-23-2002, 10:48 AM

Well, as it happens I was in court today and was asked if I swore to the truth, "...so help you God?" I'd heard this asked of others that went up ahead of me, and knew to expect it, so I wasn't surprised when it was asked of me. I'm wondering how other non-believers would respond. I said, "I do." This was bankruptcy court and my wife was nervous enough about being there in the first place, so I thought objecting to the god phrase wouldn't really help things along. The more I thought about it though, I decided it really shouldn't bother me much, since I don't believe in Him, He can't help me, can He? Actually, wasn't it in one of the "Oh God" movies where George Burns (RIP) as God says, "So help me, me?" I know I've seen it somewhere before. At least I didn't have to put my hand on a bible.

OK, nonbelievers, what are your thoughts on this phrase?

Jolimont · 09-23-2002, 11:33 AM

I'm told there's a non-theist swearing procedure that courts can use upon request, but I can't remember what my friend told me it was. I don't think I would have insisted on it either in the situation you describe.

Non-praying Mantis · 09-23-2002, 11:54 AM

I would say:

"All except for the God part, I do."

NPM

Vibr8gKiwi · 09-23-2002, 12:40 PM

I understand you just ask for a secular alternative, and they provide one without a blink.

Bible Humper · 09-23-2002, 12:41 PM

Just say it with a straight face.

If you are questioned about a possible lie later on, just turn on the doe-eyes and yokel accent and say "No sirree! The Lawd would be mighty mad if ah lied in his name, send me to hell-fire he would, ayuh."

Toto · 09-23-2002, 12:48 PM

In California, you ask for a "civil oath."

Shadowy Man · 09-23-2002, 01:26 PM

It should be that you always have a "civil oath" in a court of law. If you want to say "so help me God" you should have to ask for it.

09-23-2002, 09:00 PM

I'm currently serving on jury duty in Seattle, and so far there hasn't been a single mention of the "G" word. There's no bible in the courtroom either.

But if there had been a god oath I would have definitely asked for a secular alternative.

diana · 09-24-2002, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shake:
<strong>Well, as it happens I was in court today and was asked if I swore to the truth, "...so help you God?" I'd heard this asked of others that went up ahead of me, and knew to expect it, so I wasn't surprised when it was asked of me. I'm wondering how other non-believers would respond. I said, "I do." This was bankruptcy court and my wife was nervous enough about being there in the first place, so I thought objecting to the god phrase wouldn't really help things along. The more I thought about it though, I decided it really shouldn't bother me much, since I don't believe in Him, He can't help me, can He? Actually, wasn't it in one of the "Oh God" movies where George Burns (RIP) as God says, "So help me, me?" I know I've seen it somewhere before. At least I didn't have to put my hand on a bible.

OK, nonbelievers, what are your thoughts on this phrase?</strong>

That's a tough one, Shake.

If I thought it was God you had to worry about, I wouldn't be an atheist. I think it's all the bigoted God-followers you have to concern yourself with. Asking for a secular alternative could easily be the one thing that turns the court against you.

When I came into the military, I swore solemnly to defend the Constitution etc "So help me God" without batting an eye.

I already know I'm telling the truth. If it convinces others that I'm telling the truth to swear by Zeus (and particularly if they can harm me in some way because I don't subscribe to their myth), I do it without a second thought. I want them to judge me on the merits of my own actions, and too many are inclined to judge you on the merits of your beliefs (or lack of) alone, without even noticing that you really are a decent human being.

Some may consider this a copout. I consider it prudent.

d

Shake · 09-25-2002, 07:56 AM

Diana, I did the same when I joined the military. I was already an atheist, but not as strong of one as I am now, so it didn't phase me.

I also agree when you said:

Quote:

I already know I'm telling the truth. If it convinces others that I'm telling the truth to swear by Zeus (and particularly if they can harm me in some way because I don't subscribe to their myth), I do it without a second thought.

I think I just would have felt a little weird if I'd had to actually repeat the phrase. I might have just said, "... so help me, IPU!"

09-23-2002, 10:48 AM	#1
Shake Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Folding@Home in upstate NY Posts: 14,394	"... so help you God." Well, as it happens I was in court today and was asked if I swore to the truth, "...so help you God?" I'd heard this asked of others that went up ahead of me, and knew to expect it, so I wasn't surprised when it was asked of me. I'm wondering how other non-believers would respond. I said, "I do." This was bankruptcy court and my wife was nervous enough about being there in the first place, so I thought objecting to the god phrase wouldn't really help things along. The more I thought about it though, I decided it really shouldn't bother me much, since I don't believe in Him, He can't help me, can He? Actually, wasn't it in one of the "Oh God" movies where George Burns (RIP) as God says, "So help me, me?" I know I've seen it somewhere before. At least I didn't have to put my hand on a bible. OK, nonbelievers, what are your thoughts on this phrase?

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09-23-2002, 11:33 AM	#2
Jolimont Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USA expat, now living in France Posts: 1,153	I'm told there's a non-theist swearing procedure that courts can use upon request, but I can't remember what my friend told me it was. I don't think I would have insisted on it either in the situation you describe.

09-23-2002, 11:54 AM	#3
Non-praying Mantis Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Roanoke, VA, USA Posts: 2,646	I would say: "All except for the God part, I do." NPM

09-23-2002, 12:40 PM	#4
Vibr8gKiwi Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: CA, USA Posts: 543	I understand you just ask for a secular alternative, and they provide one without a blink.

09-23-2002, 12:41 PM	#5
Bible Humper Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,125	Just say it with a straight face. If you are questioned about a possible lie later on, just turn on the doe-eyes and yokel accent and say "No sirree! The Lawd would be mighty mad if ah lied in his name, send me to hell-fire he would, ayuh."

09-23-2002, 12:48 PM	#6
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	In California, you ask for a "civil oath."

09-23-2002, 01:26 PM	#7
Shadowy Man Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Shadowy Planet Posts: 7,585	It should be that you always have a "civil oath" in a court of law. If you want to say "so help me God" you should have to ask for it.

09-23-2002, 09:00 PM	#8
atheist_in_foxhole Guest Posts: n/a	I'm currently serving on jury duty in Seattle, and so far there hasn't been a single mention of the "G" word. There's no bible in the courtroom either. But if there had been a god oath I would have definitely asked for a secular alternative.

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