Amie

Thanks but I never said it was "too small". I know there is a great difference between something being "bigger" and something being "too small" but thats a lovely pic

Salmon of Doubt

Why do you want to believe that? Have you questioned your own motivations for wanting to believe that? What are they?

philechat

If I did not understand Amie incorrectly, what she meant by "bigger" means more meaningful in the subjective sense. The actual "size" of the universe has nothing to do with it.

I personally do not believe the universe itself having any specific goals for us humans. But from what I surmised, Amie thinks that "bigger" means something that has more personal connections with the human individual, as opposed to the planet and the universe, which is indifferent to us (though forever affecting us, "unconsciously").

Why NEED a god? Why did so many cultures invented religions? And why are so many people convinced of the "truths" of their religion? I suppose it is probably a survival trait (as some evolutionary psychologists like to point out). It fosters group identity and cohesion; it enhances social connections with other members of the group; it is probably the major shaper of most civilizations (laws are better enforced when connected with "divine laws"). I think Plato is quite honest when he talked about the "holy lies" that religions offer in order to to sustain the collective ideal.

Amie

Hi Salmon of Doubt
well its just what I believe to be. I believe we are all part of something in which we may not be able to fully comprehend right now, I base my beliefs on things I have been taught and experiences I have had. I think at the end of all of this there are only 2 things we can take with us when we die and of course I have questioned myself on many occasions. I have thought before "what if I am wrong" but have you thought that? I draw my own conclusions as do you. I may feel completely fed up and disgusted with my church right now (for reasons that I would be happy to share with you if you would like to know) but my God belief stays. In thinking about your question I would have to go back in time and change some things, some experiences in order to change my beliefs.
I did go through a time, actually a few times where I really gave up my faith. The first time was when I was 18 years old and I was widowed after 16 days of marriage. I would not wish that pain on anyone else and through that experience I learned a lot about myself, I ws able to draw on inner strengths and rely on my 7 brothers and 5 sisters to help me. At the time I felt there could be no God and if there was he must not be a just God but now I feel differently. I feel not only is there a just God but a loving one. My motivation behind that is eternal life. I believe that this life is only a blue print of things to come.

admice

Thank you all for your replies!

Diana - thanks for adding what you did and I agree with what you said the most.

Cameron..I don't think it is only the need for external authority to control behavior. I think one major function of religion has also been to try to explain the mysteries confronting humans. Your point about doctrine is, undeniably true tho. People will probably always exploit other people's limitations, tho, with or without religion.

Biff- i wouldn't say always 'inflicted', but definitely socially taught, yep.

Keith, you're right, it isn't your problem. But I think more empathy, compassion and understanding in the world wouldn't hurt. However, you aren't under any obligation to exercise or acquire that.

Jobar-I think your experience is neat! Let us know if you get to talk to her again. That would be great.

more to come

admice

Amie, I personally feel part of many very things that i consider quite 'big' enough for me: this magnificent universe (THANKS SHADOWY MAN!), nature, the human race...the concepts of god only detract from that for me.

Phile, good points

Amie-I think your reply to Salmon has logic flaws, which you've shown before. For your own edification you might want to look at that, but I understand that based upon your subjective interpretation of experiences you believe in a god. Maybe re-look at those with a secular perspective sometime and see what you think. up to you. I really hope this life ISN'T a blue-print for the future tho. I would design it so differently (sad, sad, world sometimes)

peace
admice

Amie

And how exactly would one go about doing that? that would be like me telling someone who has been an atheist all of his life to re-look at those things with a theist perspective.

I am not intending to be antagonsitic, I am sincere.

admice

Ooh, hard to explain how I do it. It's fairly easy for me to understand other people's perspective, independently of my own. Here's a suggestion:

Pick an occurance that you attributed to god acting in your life. Then look at the circumstances with the hypothetical approach 'What if god were NOT involved in that situation? How could I explain it?' and try to come up with alternative answers to the question.

Hopefully others here can explain a methodology better.

The above, however is not how I do it. I usually accumulate as much data as I can (hopefully a lot), immerse myself in the subject, think about it on a subconcious level, then somehow come up with any inconsistencies or contradictions or ommissions and research further till I find an explanation most consistent with the facts I DO know or that answers questions I still have.

Hope this didn't seem patronizing.

good luck

Biff the unclean

Looking at it in a secular way should be easy enough because that is how you already look at most things in your life.

You isolate the way you think about God for the subject of God alone. You consider the same type of thinking you use towards God to be superstitions when you see people using it towards other subjects. For instance crossing yourself at a moment of stress as opposed to throwing a pinch of salt over your shoulder. Similar actions, both used to "ward off evil" however one would make you smile and the other you would respect.

Next time you are thinking about God ask yourself if what you are attributing to him could have another more pedestrian explaination. Is what you are considering supernatural or might there be a mundane explaination?

You will find that there is always a mundane explaination.

joedad

Needing a god or wanting a god?

It seems that people who think (thanks diana) they need a god really only want a god.

And it's interesting. Amie's experience would tell me there are no gods, but that there are supportive people. Yet she comes to the opposite conclusion about gods.

joe