admice

I'm not sure this thread goes here, so feel free to move.

I'm an atheist, but i have found so many people NEED a god(s) for a sense of security and hope for justice. I am not willing to try to take that away from them. Some people also don't have the mental capacity to base their lives on a rational and/or scientific basis alone. I think this is a valid reaction to theism. what think you?

admice

diana

Salutations, admice.

I appreciate the invitation, but if I felt the need, I'd do it with or without your consent.

However, people's reasons for believing in a god are intimately connected to any discussion of that god's existence, so I think you selected an appropriate forum for this discussion.

Pardon my pedantry, please, but I'd say they think they need a god for those things--and more, such as the need for control, fear of what they don't understand, and the desire to have answers for the unknown.

I understand your position. Live and let live. Commendable.

I am willing to discuss it with them if they engage me, though, and I will stand against them and make my voice heard if they purport to have The Truth. That is, if they claim to know what is right and wrong to the point that they would try to force their values on others. But if they just believe and derive comfort from it, I applaud them.

While some people demonstrably don't have the mental capacity to base their lives on reason, as they (clinically) lack the ability to reason, I'd hesitate to make a blanket statement to this effect.

It has been more my experience that people who believe generally have the ability to reason, and reason well, particularly in the areas of their lives that affect them financially. I think they choose to abandon reason in the area of religion, as reason somehow destroys what they feel is beautiful and right.

I'd assert, instead, that the emotions that motivate belief in the unknowable override most people's desire to deal with religious claims rationally.

d

camerontigris

Sure, and if some people need a security blanket, a boost for low-self esteem, or a sense of belonging...have at it. I don't argue that the notion of god cannot be a pretty effective tool for some people to use to make sense of their lives. But religion, unfortunately, doesn't allow for hypothetical faith - and most notions of god are attached to a religious doctrine. The problem I have is generally with religious doctrine, NOT with the notion of whether or not there is a god. It is doctrine that pushes to infect classrooms, courtrooms and political platforms. It is doctrine that starts holy wars, oppresses and executes non-believers and becomes a self-financing socio-political private military of righteous extremists. I have a problem with that.

My thought is that some people have a real problem understanding personal restraint outside of an external punish/reward system. If nothing else religion, with it's all powerful vengeful god(s), is a pretty effective deployment of a punish/reward system. It says, "do good and you'll be eternally rewarded, do bad and you'll be eternally punished." In places where the margin between life and death is very narrow...this can be a very real threat. The problem is, again, the doctrine that can be adopted to any purpose. When you can color right and wrong with the esprit du jour, you can come up with some pretty nasty results. Again, the belief in a god or gods alone is not inclined to abuse - but when we talk about someone basing their life on a certain belief system - it's precisely doctrine that we're talking about.

Biff the unclean

I wouldn't say that people need a god, I've say that the need for a god is something that is inflicted upon the person. Those who are lucky enough to be born in Atheist housholds and aren't told of this need from the day they are born simply don't have it.

Keith Russell

Greetings:

If people cannot handle the truth of 'God's' nonexistence, that's their problem, not mine.

Keith.

Jobar

Biff has the right of it, I think. If someone is told, over and over, from the time they are in diapers, that they *need* to believe in a god, then surprise, surprise, they do (or at least are convinced that they do.)

Sometimes I meet someone who has never before met an atheist, or really thought about atheism. (It happened to me a couple of days ago, in fact.) She had heard from her sister, a former neighbor of mine, that I was an atheist. We had met several times, and she had come to realize I was not an ogre- so she asked me a few simple questions about atheism. ("How do you explain the world? What happens to you when you die? Why don't you believe what everyone else does?" etc etc...)

My answers- standard fare for us infidels- were obviously very disturbing to her. But at the same time, it was like she was discovering a whole new world! Equal parts fear and wonder. And my final comment, before she left, was Kally's famous "God is Santa Claus for adults." She says she wants to talk to me more- I don't know if she will flush all that down the memory hole, or if I have lit a spark for her. If she comes back, I may well ask her just why *she* needs God. If her answers are interesting I will likely post more about her.

Amie

Hi Keith
thats not "the truth". sorry hon
Hi admice
I think some people just want to believe they are part of something bigger...

Harpy

I think some people just want to believe they are part of something bigger...

Bigger than what? You think this planet, this universe is too small?

Amie

Bigger than this life, this planet, this universe...
No

Shadowy Man

If you're worried about this universe ever seeming too small, just look at this picture:




"The stage is too big for the drama."