Carrie

That's true. Guys are guys. And I know how they think. I'm sure if I came onto him, my ex would mess around with me. He's not married, so he wouldn't have that stopping him. I wonder if he was married, if that would stop him. Hopefully. But I wonder how many married guys would cheat on their wives if gorgeous women came onto them. Guys like Michael Jordan or Bill Clinton have women hit on them all the time, and we know they've cheated on their wives. It seems like adultery is pretty rampant, so it's something to guard yourself against.

Pyrrho

Yes, in this particular case, I think I agree that this might be the best advice. But I don't think it is a general rule that needs to be followed by people who don't have such problems.


If most men believe that, then most men are idiots. When forming a platonic friendship, the genitals of the friend are totally irrelevant. Their genitals are only relevant if the relationship is not going to be platonic. Neither I, nor my spouse, have any problems with the other having friends of the opposite sex, no matter what they look like. We have been happily married for quite a few years, and we don't have an "open" marriage; we expect sexual fidelity. If you marry someone who is untrustworthy (which I regard as foolish), then you can't reasonably trust him or her. But not everyone is untrustworthy.

Neither my spouse nor I want to have sex with anyone else. If we did, we would never have gotten married. It is stupid to enter into a relationship that you don't want. If you want to have sex with a bunch of different people, then you don't want a monogamous relationship. If you want a monogamous relationship, then you don't want to have sex with more than one person, in which case spending time with people of the opposite sex should not be a concern for your spouse.

By the way, we both could very easily cheat on each other, if we wanted to do so (neither of us have had too much difficulty in attracting others, not that anyone is likely to have too much trouble being unfaithful if they wish to be). We just don't want to. It would mean that we would not have the relationship that we want to have. If you want an honest relationship, then you must do your part, and be honest within it. Whatever you want in a relationship, you must do your part, or you can't have that kind of relationship. Both my spouse and I are intelligent enough to understand this concept.

If one limited one's friends only to those who are of the same sex, then one would be eliminating about half the population from consideration. It is difficult enough to find people worthy of friendship without excluding half of the population for no good reason.

Pyrrho

Do not confuse "most" with "all". Most men may be perfectly willing to cheat on their spouses, given the right opportunity. But that doesn't mean that all are.

As a side question (one that I do not expect you to answer here, but merely propose it as something for you to think about), do you think your husband is one of those men willing to cheat on his wife?

Vorkosigan

You know, just to look at it from the other side, the other day an extremely attractive Taiwanese women in her early 50s, wealthy, intelligent, with high position and regularly publishing research in journals abroad, recently talked to me about how bored she was with her husband and how much more interesting I am. She interlaced that with the comment that a friend of hers advised her to have an affair. And you know, I don't think I went too far when I interpreted that as an offer.

Carrie, a bored woman who likes cheating and whose husband can't keep up with her intellectually is asking for a life of frustration. Marriage sometimes accumulates. Whatever is bumming you out now is going to bum you out more ten years from now; whatever is making you happy now is going to delight you ten years from now, over and above whatever changes happen in you two. If I were you I'd start thinking about divorce. Seriously. Before the kids arrive. Right now it is nothing more than admitting a mistake and moving on.

Vorkosigan

Carrie

My husband actually said it would be okay for us to hang out with my ex at a party. And he said it’s okay if I’m friends with another guy too. So this is progress. I think we should be able to be friends with members of the opposite sex and have it not be a
problem. He doesn’t have any female friends though. If he did, I’d never have to worry about him cheating. He’s just not the type, at all. Plus he’s got his religious convictions. And he loves me a lot.

I’m feeling happier about life with my husband, I don’t feel the need for friends as much. We had a great weekend together and had lots of fun. I’m the type that is happy having just one friend, and now that I’m married, that friend is my husband. But it’s not good to be that way. I really have to put effort into maintaining other friendships. Otherwise I’ll end up bored again eventually, and we’ll be isolated. A couple needs other friends / outlets.

As for staying with my husband, we did have a talk about that. I told him I needed to think, because I wasn’t sure I could handle our religious differences forever. Mostly because I get mad at him for being who he is - a close minded brainwashed believer.
So I had to ask myself, if he never changes and comes to his senses, can I still be happy with him? After this weekend, I concluded that the answer is YES. I can accept him and love him, and usually ignore our differences. That’s because we have so much fun together. This weekend we went out and did a lot of stuff, just so we could work on our marriage and improve it, and it worked. I’m sure our differences will cause problems
sometimes. I expect that every so often I’ll get mad about it, and we’ll fight. But then we’ll make up. We had a major “fight” about it this weekend, but making up later was wonderful.

I do still hope for change, but I shouldn’t expect it. But he did make some progress toward change already. I said the fact that there are no answers to the problems I had brought up about the Bible, should tell him something. I said he should at least try to come up with some answers, or admit there are none. He agreed. And he also said that when we have kids, we can each teach them about our own beliefs. So things are going in a positive direction.

HelenM

That's great news, Carrie!

I think most people do. It doesn't mean the marriage has problems that they do. It's just the way most of us are.

Ideally other friends can help your marriage because they will help you regain perspective on the marriage if you lose it. As well as giving you opportunities to talk about stuff your husband isn't interested in, etc.

That makes sense. I'm glad you came to the answer you did. I think that has to be a hard thing to hear from a spouse but I think you were right to be honest with him. I expect he was very happy with the answer you came to

It may be wise to discuss how you'd raise children, at some point. That tends to be a big issue when partners hold different beliefs/non-beliefs.

I'm glad you came to that answer

I'm not surprised that you did because, after all, I doubt you married him just because he was a believer - I'm sure there were/are lots of other reasons - and you were happily reminded of those this weekend, it sounds like.

I'm so glad!



Great! Thanks for the update, Carrie

Helen

beth

Carrie, I'm glad for you. I hope things continue to improve in your marriage.

keyser_soze

Congrats!

Doesn't mean that you two should stop working on it though.

Ted Hoffman

It all depends on how one defines life. We come to this world alone and we die alone. Everything we get in the process of life is never OURS - we only share them. When we share the things we enjoy, our life is enrichened and we are happy. It does not mean that when we lack them our life is cut in half - we only become unhappy - a state of mind.

There is no way we can live half a life yet we have everything we came with in place.

A relationship is made up of two people. If we dont get what we need, we have a responsibility to seek proper ways of getting whatever it is we are not getting from that present relationship. To abandon it and seek an easy way out when we dont get what we want is childish and irresponsible.

One thing you can be sure about is that there is NO relationship with no challenge. EACH relationship has a challenge - some tougher, some lesser. We are all humans and we all have weaknesses - if ones spouse is not fulfiling a certain need, that other spouse needs assistance - not abandonment. We have a responsibility in getting that need fulfilled. Commitment means going the extra mile to make it work even when despair is setting in.

My now fiancee was having a friendship with another man and it hurt me and she only stopped it when I was ready to break up with her. I do not think ANY friendship should be allowed to strain the your marriage - its the most important relationship to you. Its never worth it and even when we insist on having these kinds of friendships, we are just acting like spoilt, selfish children.

Fine, we are not designed for monogamous relationships. We do have claws (what we call nails) do we then start living like cats? It doesnt matter what we are designed as - we have to live life in a manner that we believe has a high likelihood of bringing us happiness. And thats monogamy. Thats faithfulness. That is loyalty. Give out what you would like to receive.

dangin

Hi Carrie, I'm not addressing you here, what you are doing is fine and I'm glad you are having a better time now.

Yes, there is no way to live half a life. But there are also tons of ways to lessen the quality of one and one's partner's life by passive agression, cheating (as some refer to it), arguing, not communicating, etc. etc. In situation's like this, it's time to end it. And quick.


No. To abandon it as an easy way out MAY be childish or irresponsible. Relationships are not atoms. Splitting them is really not that big a deal. They split all the time, as I type, and as you read this later, people are breaking up. Friends are ending friendships. Children are becoming estranged from their parents. Also, people are falling in love, life friends are meeting for the first time, children are being nurtured. There is good and bad in life. Relationships are not some unbreakable thing to be protected at all costs. Observation of reality proves my point. The divorce rate proves my point.

Even if you are with a pathological liar, or cheater, or someone who has drastically changed since you began the relationship? Come now, you must admit that their are relationships that are better off ending. I'm simply of the position that any relationship ending is no big deal. We agree then, I'm simply more extreme in my position.

"My NOW fiancee"??? So you've had others? Now also implies she may not be the future fiancee. How many relationships have you been in that have ended. How many people have you had sex with? How many more relationships are you going to have in your life? Do you really believe what you are saying, or did you react to me and think, "This guy is to callous, relationships are meant to be worked on" even though you are living what I'm talking about. I could be wrong, obviously I don't know you. But you did threaten to end a relationship just to keep it going. Unless you are a bluffer, you're not afraid to step up to the plate and break up.

Ahh monogamy and cat's claws are an excellent comparison. Do you have a cat, does it still have it's front claws. Have you trained it to stop using them yet? C'mon, if I can be lifelong monogamous, then surely your cat will never claw your furniture, bed covers, or carpet again. You cat doesn't need their claws, you provide food, and shelter, most competing animals are locked away, or far away in the wild. Surely you can make your cat see the sense of ignoring millions of generations of physiological evolution and conditioning so it doesn't fuck up the upholstory on your sofa.

No? You mean you can't change your cat? At best you can make it stop clawing shit when you're in the room. Well, I hope you are committed to the relationship with your cat. It would be "childish and irresponsible" to give up on changing billions of years of evolution just so your relationship can work better.