diana

I was just thinking today...when I was a Xn, everyone around me talked about what joy and comfort they found in the Bible, and what pleasure it brought them.

But I don't remember anybody who actually did find joy and comfort in reading the Bible, in reality. I don't know any Xns from the many I knew for years who read the Bible in his own time--let alone any who couldn't wait to get home so they could read some more.

Instead, what we had was a professed "joy and comfort" in the word of God, but it didn't get read except during worship or bible study classes, and then only the verses we were expected to read. I remember carrying my bible to church and back for years, and hardly ever actually opening it and reading it. When I did have occasion to read it, I didn't really think about the words. I knew the stories so well I could quote them in my sleep, but I didn't think about them.

But we loved the bible, all right...oh yes.

Cut to me, now.

I can't get enough of it. I have a hard time reading more than a chapter at a time, because I stop and ask questions, check cross references, read footnotes, do searches on words and phrases in the original tongues, and I think about it all. Then I come here and discuss it, asking questions and getting opinions and voicing objections and listing apparent contradictions (sometimes they are irreconcilable, but sometimes I'm just missing something pertinent).

I look up information about the ancient world. In the case of Hebrew scriptures, I look for what Rabbis have to say about it. I want different viewpoints.

And I don't have to "set aside 30 minutes a day to study God's word." I can't get enough of reading the bible and researching it and discussing it. If I have to set aside time for anything, it's finding time to cook dinner.

If the bible really did bring Xns that much joy and pleasure, they'd not be able to wait to get home so they could read it in. There would be no need to "set aside time" to do it. They'd be sneaking in bible breaks at work.

Perhaps all this is as simple as noting that I don't have to read it, and when I do, I don't have to accept it as true, no matter what. I am free to understand it in any light.

I think the idea that Xns are supposed to read the bible and that they are required to accept it as the inspired word of God--even when it seems to contradict itself or simply doesn't make sense--are two strong factors for why you almost never find them reading it when they don't have to.

d

Edited to add: my hat's off to the theists who come here to honestly defend and debate. Obviously, you are thinking about your religion deeper than the average bear and putting your own time into it and--unless I miss my guess--taking pleasure from the whole enterprise.

And more: AND I listen to Xn radio. All the time. When I run, when I drive. It's addictive. I don't believe a word of it, but I'm absolutely mesmerized. When I was a Xn, you couldn't pay me to listen to Xn radio.

[ December 14, 2002: Message edited by: diana ]</p>

ApostateAbe

That's insightful, diana. I too find the Bible much more interesting to me now then when I was a christian. Before, I felt uncomfortable in church, because I was being led to sing words that I didn't really think and mean. I also felt uncomfortable in bible studies because I was being led to conclusions I might not actually agree with. And when I voiced dissent, the subject was diverted, especially if it was too disagreeable.

For example, shortly before my deconversion, the Bible study was discussing our relationship with God. Of course they were trying to tell me that God is very intimate and loving. I said that God seemed too much like a father who leaves you a long letter when you are born and then goes away forever. I can send him letters, but the only messages I get from him are in the form of cryptic puzzle messages, which he leaves lying around in random places. Mostly I find those messages in his big long letter. After I said that, the person leading the table simply said "OK...", went back to the plan, and ignored me.

It seemed wierd how the Bible was supposed to the Word of God, and yet God didn't seem to get His point across so well. I felt guilty for some of the doubts and thoughts I had with the Bible.

But now that my mind is free, I can have fun reading it. My dorm neighbors lead their own Campus Crusade for Christ bible studies, and I attend both of them simply to learn about the Bible and provide a balance of viewpoints. One of them sometimes has little squabbles with me over religion. He challenged me to read the Bible with an open mind. I said that I would agree as long as he would read Bible criticisms for the same amount of time. He agreed, so now I am reading the Bible for ten minutes a day, and I write down whatever pops out at me. I am reading Luke now. My neighbor friend apparently thinks that if I read the Bible enough, then the truth will just overwhelm me, if I read with an open-mind, that is. So I am trying to construct a new view of Jesus forgetting everything else I have been told.

So far I have X-man mutant Jesus (Luke 8:46), homeless-hobo-cult Jesus (Luke 9:3-5), secret-agent Jesus (Luke 9:21), mafia Jesus (Luke 12:4-7), cult-leader-of-family-separation Jesus (Luke 14:25-27), sexist-pig Jesus (Luke 16:18), fire-and-brimstone-preaching Jesus (Luke 16:19), pessimist-about-skeptics Jesus (Luke 16:31), over-confident-in-faith Jesus (Luke 17:6), lack-of-direction Jesus (Luke 17:11), parental-neglect Jesus (Luke 18:29-30), and tyrant Jesus (Luke 19:27).

And that is just part of Luke! I can hardly wait to see how many other faces of Jesus there are in the rest of the apostles.

[ December 14, 2002: Message edited by: Apostate ]</p>

diana

Yup. Interesting comment you made about trying to read it with an open mind.

I was told precisely how to interpret the bible my whole life. Everything was required to fit the prescribed doctrine.

Now, when I read it, I must slow down to make sure my mind doesn't shift back into neutral and fall into its well-worn bible-interpretation rut.

I have to ask myself constantly why someone was doing something, why he said something, etc. For example, when John came out of the wilderness baptizing people for the remission of sins, by whose authority was he baptizing them? What sort of meaning did it have? Christ wasn't even crucified yet....

d

philechat

I remembered the experience of Bible studies, a gracious "gift" brought about by my aunt even if I am not a Christian. In my oh-so-naive mind at that period in my high school I thought a Bible studies class would be exactly like a literature class, where students could debate and discuss issues openly and "critically" interpret the text in hand.

But when I brought my inquisitive attitude into the class, I discovered the eerie truth: that people are NOT talking about the text at all even when a passage was supposedly ripped off the Good Book for discussion. I asked about 10-15 embarassing questions, ones that no one would volenteer to answer or answer with evasion, like..."I don't know anything about Islam" Or, "well, God is looking after us" when I asked for the opinion of God over those of other religions. It ended with another member having that one beautiful and eloquent eulogy on the "love of God"

I guess I was mistaken when I insisted the Bible to be read as literature. They did not research on the historical, sociological, or rhetoric context of the book (topics that I am actually interested in), but repeated, again and again, something akin to "God loves us" and "God is always good and just". To tell the truth it's creepy.

[ December 16, 2002: Message edited by: philechat ]</p>