Freethought & Rationalism Archive

jasonpiao · 10-10-2002, 08:13 AM

Hello to all,
My girlfriend and I have been living together for over a year, in love and happy. However, apparently her entire family views us as 'living in sin'. With Thanksgiving (Canada) approaching, I am hoping to arm myself with some strong counters to this claim.
My question is: Where does this concept come from? I highly doubt that the bible says you must perform elaborate state sanctioned ceremonies before you can love without sin. The bible says so little about marriage that it doesn't even seem to stress a ceremony at all.
I appreciate any help on this subject, thanks in advance

K · 10-10-2002, 08:27 AM

jasonpaio:

I don't know where it comes from, but the Catholic church I grew up in was really extreme. We were taught that even if a couple were married, they were forced to live as brother and sister (church talk for no sex) unless they were trying to have children. I know they didn't entirely believe this, because they were also teaching that the rhythm method was an acceptable form of birth control.

10-10-2002, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by K:
<strong>jasonpaio:

I don't know where it comes from, but the Catholic church I grew up in was really extreme. We were taught that even if a couple were married, they were forced to live as brother and sister (church talk for no sex) unless they were trying to have children. I know they didn't entirely believe this, because they were also teaching that the rhythm method was an acceptable form of birth control.</strong>

The usual phrase omitted here is the priest was allowed to deflower you girl-friend.

jasonpiao · 10-10-2002, 12:09 PM

So is this only a modern church creation? Is there no mention in the bible of living together as being a sin?

K · 10-10-2002, 12:18 PM

jasonpaio:

Not that I'm aware of.

Shake · 10-10-2002, 12:32 PM

Welcome, Jason! And congratulations on being in what seems to be a good, stable, loving relationship. There aren't enough of those around. Unfortunately, I can't tell you where it comes from either. They usually assume that since you are living together that you must be engaged in pre-marital sex! That might not be the case (if it is, it's no one's business)! I too, will be checking this topic again to see if you find an answer.

HelenM · 10-10-2002, 01:04 PM

jasonpiao here's one statement from one ministry:

<a href="http://www.family.org/cforum/purity/a0019148.html" target="_blank">Colorado Statement on Biblical Sexual Morality</a>

Perhaps it will help you see what conservative Christians believe the Bible teaches about sex and marriage, which seems to be quite different from what you are supposing it says, with all due respect.

take care
Helen

Mad Kally · 10-10-2002, 01:16 PM

From Helen's link:

Quote:

As a matter of fact, it is possible for sinful men and women to experience a form of physical enjoyment and degrees of emotional, psychological, and spiritual fulfillment even in sexual conduct that God considers abhorrent.

Like, huh?

ImGod · 10-10-2002, 01:33 PM

So, god lets you enjoy the icky sex even though it's wrong... Hmmm.

This disturbed me more with the mental image of christ just hanging out waiting for his turn.

Quote:

Thus we affirm that intimate sexual union in marriage is a reflection of the intimate moral and spiritual union Christ will some day enjoy with the redeemed and glorified Church.

jasonpiao · 10-10-2002, 02:22 PM

Ok, I read the link posted. It seems to me that unless the government and modern church tell us that we are married, it is saying god will consider us sinners? Will god, or will the church? I have to think these are two completely different viewpoints as there is a plethora of historical error on the part of the church in god's name. Nevermind the fact the 'Book' which doesn't say anything about this was written by fallible creatures driven to sin.
I trust that a god would know that we are living true to each other, that we harm no one, and that two of his creations have found the bliss he wishes us all to have.
Again, where is the sin?...
It strikes me that her family is doing the judging, and by their rules, not god's. If there is a god, I have no fear at all in being accountable for my actions. Perhaps a person's happiness should be more important than the control other people or institutions want to have over it.

10-10-2002, 08:13 AM	#1
jasonpiao Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Victoria, B.C. Posts: 60	Where does "Living in Sin" come from? Hello to all, My girlfriend and I have been living together for over a year, in love and happy. However, apparently her entire family views us as 'living in sin'. With Thanksgiving (Canada) approaching, I am hoping to arm myself with some strong counters to this claim. My question is: Where does this concept come from? I highly doubt that the bible says you must perform elaborate state sanctioned ceremonies before you can love without sin. The bible says so little about marriage that it doesn't even seem to stress a ceremony at all. I appreciate any help on this subject, thanks in advance

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

10-10-2002, 08:27 AM	#2
K Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,485	jasonpaio: I don't know where it comes from, but the Catholic church I grew up in was really extreme. We were taught that even if a couple were married, they were forced to live as brother and sister (church talk for no sex) unless they were trying to have children. I know they didn't entirely believe this, because they were also teaching that the rhythm method was an acceptable form of birth control.

10-10-2002, 12:09 PM	#4
jasonpiao Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Victoria, B.C. Posts: 60	So is this only a modern church creation? Is there no mention in the bible of living together as being a sin?

10-10-2002, 12:18 PM	#5
K Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,485	jasonpaio: Not that I'm aware of.

10-10-2002, 12:32 PM	#6
Shake Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Folding@Home in upstate NY Posts: 14,394	Welcome, Jason! And congratulations on being in what seems to be a good, stable, loving relationship. There aren't enough of those around. Unfortunately, I can't tell you where it comes from either. They usually assume that since you are living together that you must be engaged in pre-marital sex! That might not be the case (if it is, it's no one's business)! I too, will be checking this topic again to see if you find an answer.

10-10-2002, 01:04 PM	#7
HelenM Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ill Posts: 6,577	jasonpiao here's one statement from one ministry: <a href="http://www.family.org/cforum/purity/a0019148.html" target="_blank">Colorado Statement on Biblical Sexual Morality</a> Perhaps it will help you see what conservative Christians believe the Bible teaches about sex and marriage, which seems to be quite different from what you are supposing it says, with all due respect. take care Helen

10-10-2002, 02:22 PM	#10
jasonpiao Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Victoria, B.C. Posts: 60	Ok, I read the link posted. It seems to me that unless the government and modern church tell us that we are married, it is saying god will consider us sinners? Will god, or will the church? I have to think these are two completely different viewpoints as there is a plethora of historical error on the part of the church in god's name. Nevermind the fact the 'Book' which doesn't say anything about this was written by fallible creatures driven to sin. I trust that a god would know that we are living true to each other, that we harm no one, and that two of his creations have found the bliss he wishes us all to have. Again, where is the sin?... It strikes me that her family is doing the judging, and by their rules, not god's. If there is a god, I have no fear at all in being accountable for my actions. Perhaps a person's happiness should be more important than the control other people or institutions want to have over it.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.