TMA68

What are everyone's thoughts on deism?

Todd

Old Man

From: http://www.deism.com/deism_defined.htm

I think they borrowed that one off Christianity.

Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them.

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:


Christianity also teaches that God is revealed through reason and nature - and other things besides. So Deism seems to artificially limit the number of ways that God can reveal himself, which is bizarre. Because further on, you say "Man does not dictate to God".

But in arbitrarily limiting the number of ways God can reveal himself, deists certainly dictate to God.

But again, where is your evidence that God has never revealed himself apart from in "creation" and "reason"?

But strictly speaking, neither does one need any of these in Christianity, for Christ had none of these to teach him. And Christ has appointed to Holy Spirit to teach the world.

But you DO dictate to God how he is permitted to reveal himself to the world.

If you don't even know whether God is man or woman, how can you conceivably know anything else about him/her?

So Deism must question itself if it is to consistent. What proofs does Deism hold to show its internal consistency or validity?

There must have been something in the way of history to recount of the past 4000 years. Why should the world's oldest and largest history book be ALL fabrication?

But how does one reason with a woman who is intent on divorcing you? Then all your "deist" success goes out of the window at a stroke. Reason is one thing, but the world needs more than reason to keep it healthy.

Its good to know that deism does not provide any answers. That was what I always suspected.

Godless Dave

It provides exactly as many answers as Christianity or any other religion, but unlike them it does not try to pass off human ideas as God's word.

It's not surprising that Deism has some similarities to Christian ideas, as it arose out of the Christian culture of Europe during the Enlightenment. Of course, Christianity got its ideas about monotheism from Judaism, which got them either from Persia or Egypt, perhaps both. Christianity's ideas about the relationship of God to nature came from Greek philosophers. It's all part of a continuum of theological thought. However, Deists recognize that there is zero evidence of God intervening in history or nature, so, while clinging to the belief in a Creator God, they relegated him to creating existence and then stepping back and letting his creation take its course. Deism was the philosophical basis behind the Enlightenment idea of human rights upon which our nation was founded, so if we are going to teach religion in public schools as being an aspect of patriotism, as some people seem to desire, then we will have to teach Deism, not Christianity.

Old Man

More like a regression, I would say. Back to the Abrahimic era: pre Christ, and pre the Mosaic law.

Ah yes. The idea of human rights: we all know the human rights of the husband subjected to a writ of divorce by his wife + a fabricated allegation of child abuse + a demand for life long alimony + a demand for 50% of his capital.

For "deist" read "atheist". The deist God is the most ridiculous of all.


Besides, many of the Founders were hardly Christians. There were several Deists, most prominent among them Thomas Jefferson. Deism rejected formal or organized religion, including Christianity; it taught that people should depend on human reasoning, not revealed truths, to discern what is true in the world. Deism rejected the divinity of Jesus and ascribed his miracles and resurrection to "mysticisms, fancies and falsehoods" (Jefferson's words).


From http://thomasash.hypermart.net/polit...nrepublic.html

TomboyMom

I disagree with it, as my use of reason does not lead to a conclusion that God exists, or even can be grasped as a logical concept. However, it is not nearly as ridiculous as Chrisitanity, Judaims, Islam, Hinduism or Mormonism. At least it upholds the power of the individual and is not heirarchical.

Rene

Old Man

You are confused between "church" and "Chrisitanity" (I think).

By all means feel free to criticize whatever hierarchical church that you have in mind when you think of Chrisitanity, but the Chrisitanity of the bible is almost certainly a somewhat different enterprise from the typical modern church which is often perceived as selfserving of its own hierarchy before all else.

I don't like hierarchical churches myself.

Seraphim

Hmmm ... Interesting ... I could go with Deism ...

Demigawd

What does this scenario have to do with the validity of human rights? Is this an advocation for the patriarchal-centric nature of Christianity?

Spaz

I basically went from christian to deist to atheist, as many others have I'm sure. After seeing problems in religions I felt that certainly that didn't disprove god only man's interpretation of such and I basically felt that a god created the universe and then just didn't interfere nor really give a shit what his creations did, then after that I wondered what motivation a god would have to create this, etc.

Old Man

Were you the Spaz of CARM fame?