Ether

Hello everyone

I am wondering if anyone knows what exactly happened when Jesus died on the cross? I mean something was completed when that happened, Jesus mission was to die but for what purpose?

I know many like to say that it was to clean our sins and stuff like that but I dont think that is what really happened, maybe that is just part of it but not the whole thing.

Hope you can tell me something about this.

Good Day

Viti

Well according to Christianity, Jesus died as the ultimate sacrafice for mankind and a new covenenat was formed replacing the old one.

Of course many, if no most, on this board believe Jesus is a mythical figure only.

Ether

Yeah I know he didnt exist but I am just interested in what people (mainly theist) think that happened between his death at the cross and the resurecction.

This is not meant to start a debate I just want to know their views.

leonarde

Ether,
Hi! My name is Lenny and I've been thinking about this more than usual lately because I'm the
Shroud of Turin nut who was polemicizing for 16
pages out of 18 pages on the authenticity of that
Shroud (the Existence of God(s) forum).
I'll give you the ideas I have about it: those
ideas are based on:
1)tradition.
2)the Gospel accounts.
3)the physical evidence from the Sudarium of Oviedo (the headcloth) and the Shroud of Turin.
4)some logic deductions.

Good Friday: (all times are approximations)
noon to 3 pm (approximate time)Jesus still alive
on cross after scourging, crowning with thorns,
and carrying crossbeam, and, of course, being nailed to cross.
3 pm death of Jesus.
4 pm headcloth put on him to conceal ghastly expression on face.
4 to 5 pm a spear or lance is put through his side/chest area.
5 pm he is taken down from the cross. Quite a bit
of post mortem bleeding from various wounds: especially when nails are taken out of wrists and feet. Scalp wounds too are known to bleed postmortem.
Headcloth is used to staunch bleeding, absorb much
of blood.
Around 6 pm the body is transported to tomb (probably on foot as the tomb was very near the site of execution: Golgotha).
6 to 7 pm at least some aloes and myrrh were put
on the burial cloth(s)though this could have been
done even earlier.
At least a partial cleansing of the blood seems to
have been done: much of the caked-on blood and even the still-liquid blood removed.
A quite significant number of flowers were put in
the linen burial cloth with the body.
PROBABLY 2 coins were placed over the eyes (to prevent the eyes from opening).
The headcloth was removed before final entombment
which was approximately 7 pm.
Some time Friday or perhaps even early Saturday a
guard of Roman soldiers is placed outside the tomb
on the request of Jewish religious leaders so that
no "funny business" happens with the body.
Saturday- nothing happened.
Sunday- an empty tomb was found with the burial
cloths lying separately on the floor of the tomb.
Those who knew him start to tell of the most amazing sightings/conversations.
Cheers!

Ether

Thanks for the info leonarde, I really apreciate it!

Now, maybe I should have been a bit more specific with my question.

Now i guess it comes down to what was Jesus' soul (if he had any) doing while he was dead/sleeping? Before the resurection.

I read somewhere a while ago that his soul went to hell and "froze" the souls of the people who were buring to stop the suffering.

After that Satan complained to God telling him that what Jesus did was not part o the "deal". So they decided to make a new deal in wich Satan keeps the sinners and God the belivers.

I am not sure how much of this is true or if it is even true at all.

Again thanks for the reply.

leonarde

What you are relating is probably the equivalent
of a religious "old wives' tale". By its very nature a spirit/soul can't be directly observed.
Certainly no one was in hell to report on anything
afterwards.
The original Semitic(Jewish) concept of the soul
did not dichotomize in the body vs. soul sense that we do today: body and soul were pretty much a unity. The dichotomy came about from the Greek influence: the Greeks saw the body and soul as contrasting elements.
Jesus' appearances in the NT after Easter were "in
the flesh": he offered to show his hand wounds to
Thomas the Apostle.
A LOT of theology is mereest speculation: we have
no idea whether those in hell are LITERALLY burning. Perhaps, separation from God is the "only" punishment.
Cheers!

Panta Pei

A human being was an atheist (non-conformer) with tendencies to confront the status quo of charlatans pimping schemes to defraud the simple folk. For this, he was murdered.

A new scheme then developed from this minor incident to rake in new mammon and Paulianity was formed.

Wizards, knights, elves and dragons were more exciting. But, Lancelot couldn't keep it in his cod-piece, so Arthur fell taking the witches and their kindred with them.

It is obvious.

<Hey, I'm like an atheist Amos>

beachbum

Ether

I think it is believed by some that during this time JC's soul went to purgatory (sp?). Others feel it just kinda' hung around in the tomb with him. Some teach that he came to the United States and met with the Indians. Not quite sure how he got here but if he can come back from the dead and get out of a sealed tomb then anything else would have to be a piece of cake. Personally I could give a shit.

Stan the skeptical beachbum

Vorkosigan

Doesn't it say that Jesus harrowed Hell in Revelations somewhere? I know it was a common theme in Medieval art and lit.

Vorkosigan

SmashingIdols

Ahhh.. Can I address both parts of the question?

The idea is:

The pupose of his death was to remove the sin of Adam (an imperfect man) who disobeyed god and committed the original sin. After Adam and Eve's fall from grace, all humans were born under the curse of their sin, and were therefore unable to approach God. Some believed that they died, and were merely dead; some believed the dead were bound in "the pit" until the arrival of a redeemer.

God's forgiveness required the sacrifice of an innocent person with the capacity to cleanse all people of this sin in his blood; Jesus Christ, Son of God. Living a perfect life, and obeying God right up to his own mocking and death, he was the perfect balance to Adam.

At his death, he was supposed to have descended into hell, to bind 'the strong man of the house,' the devil, and release the souls of all of the people who had died up to this point, before his sacrifice.

As a footnote I would like to say that I am completely and totally atheistic, and am merely relaying a particularly Christian meaning of the New Testament. No such person, Adam or Jesus, ever existed. In fact, Jesus was supposed to be descended from Adam - who is now assumed by most christians (fundies excepted) to be a mythological character - a mere allegory of man's continued disobedience.

Exactly how allegories are supposed to reproduce, having corporeal offspring and descendants, is a question we will leave to the creationists...