Freethought & Rationalism Archive

cydonia · 04-11-2002, 05:48 PM

Welcome, and as a fellow new poster, let me say upfront that i would never hold you or your god accountable for not convincing me of your beliefs. Which is another way of saying please don't blame yourself for our lack of belief. That's not fair to you, or to us. When i debate in political threads, i rarely assume i am going to convince someone that i'm right! It's just fun to have lively discussions, it's an end in itself as far as i'm concerned.

Howard · 04-13-2002, 07:44 AM

Hello Barbara,
I know we’re not supposed to use this forum to debate, but since you started off on an unapologetic apologetics tone, I guess it’s OK.

There’s another alternative between belief and non-belief in God. That is, belief in a non-benevolent and somewhat incompetent deity.

The logic seems to be:
God created man with the capacity to sin.
Man sinned.
It’s not God’s fault.

Perhaps you can explain to us how it is that God’s ultimate creation, human beings, turned out other that the way He intended.

And welcome. You may want to reconsider the “I’m just here to witness and show you heathens the Way, the Truth and the Light” attitude. Sounds like you think you have all the answers and anyone who doesn’t agree with you is wrong. I guarantee you with that mindset your stay here will be very rocky and probably very short.

AspenMama · 04-13-2002, 09:04 AM

Barbara,

I sincerely hope you return to talk with us. Meanwhile, I am locking this thread and moving it to a more appropriate forum.

AspenMama

sullster · 04-13-2002, 10:19 AM

Babs,
You sound like a good bible believing woman who is staying home and raising hubby's christian babies. Nothing wrong with that, mind you. You seem like a good woman who knows her place and obeys and submits. Your holy bible knows that women should be seen and not heard. There is a big reward for those who submit, especially for women. Good for you.

HelenM · 04-13-2002, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by True Christian:
if I fail to convince you, do not blame our Heavenly Father. It would be my fault

Hi Barbara

Do you realize what the flip side of what you said is?

"If I do convince you then don't give God the credit - it was all my doing!"

If I were you I'd put the blame squarely on God since salvation is of the LORD. No offense, but if that is true, you can't save anyone.

Anyway, welcome!

love
Helen

GunnerJ · 04-13-2002, 11:16 AM

Goody! Another debate partner. Welcome to the board, etc. etc. Let's dispence with the formalities...

Quote:

I would just like to remind all that regardless of whether I or any other Christian convinces you, we are all still accountable to our Heavenly Father for the choices we've made in life.

Actually, I would just like to remind all that regardless of whether I or any other Muslim convinces you, we are all still accountable to The Great Allah (blesed be His name) for the choices we've made in life.

On second thought, I would just like to remind all that regardless of whether I or any other Greek polytheist convinces you, we are all still accountable to Pluto for the choices we've made in life, so long as someone puts a coin in our mouth at our funeral!

On a related note, I would just like to remind all that regardless of whether I or any other Hindu convinces you, we are all still accountable to the Brahma for the choices we've made in life, in determination of our next.

In addition, I would just like to remind all that regardless of whether I or any other devotie of Taki-Tiki the volcano god of gaum convinces you, we are all still accountable to our Firey Lord for the choices we've made in life, especially when it comes to the sacrifice of newborns.

But, then again, I would just like to remind all that regardless of whether I or any other Santa-ist convinces you, we are all still accountable to Papa Noel for the choices we've made in this year on X-mas Eve.

See? The ball rolls in all different directions.

Ciao!

Eudaimonist · 04-13-2002, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by True Christian:
My point of view on witnessing and defending the faith is much like William Lane Craig's. I will witness and defend my faith but if I fail to convince you, do not blame our Heavenly Father. It would be my fault, and with much prayer and study of the Scriptures, I would hope to learn from my mistakes.

Rest assured, I will hold you accountable, not a fictional being.

Quote:

I would just like to remind all that regardless of whether I or any other Christian convinces you, we are all still accountable to our Heavenly Father for the choices we've made in life.

Only if such a being exists. I consider myself accountable to reality, my conscience, and my integrity for my choices.

TacticalLoco · 04-13-2002, 03:24 PM

Well, I certainly agree that intelligent, true christains(tm) are in short supply around here. (Why should we be different than the rest of the planet?)
But...

10 Quatloo's says TC won't last a week.

Eudaimonist · 04-13-2002, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TacticalLoco:
10 Quatloo's says TC won't last a week.

20 Quatloos that the newcomer will end up being parodied by QoS!

echidna · 04-13-2002, 08:57 PM

Barbara, suffice to say you�ve suddenly made a lot of people very happy. Can I just offer that from what I can see, many of us here are not as Christian-hostile as others might come across.

So please, stick around and whatever you do, don�t take things personally although this will be understandably difficult. With your chosen tag I�m afraid there will be some who view you as having cast the first stone.

Personally I�m relatively confident that despite different outlooks, our similarities outweigh our differences.

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04-11-2002, 05:48 PM	#21
cydonia Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: southern california Posts: 1,002	Welcome, and as a fellow new poster, let me say upfront that i would never hold you or your god accountable for not convincing me of your beliefs. Which is another way of saying please don't blame yourself for our lack of belief. That's not fair to you, or to us. When i debate in political threads, i rarely assume i am going to convince someone that i'm right! It's just fun to have lively discussions, it's an end in itself as far as i'm concerned.

04-13-2002, 07:44 AM	#22
Howard Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Orlando, Fl Posts: 5,864	Hello Barbara, I know we’re not supposed to use this forum to debate, but since you started off on an unapologetic apologetics tone, I guess it’s OK. There’s another alternative between belief and non-belief in God. That is, belief in a non-benevolent and somewhat incompetent deity. The logic seems to be: God created man with the capacity to sin. Man sinned. It’s not God’s fault. Perhaps you can explain to us how it is that God’s ultimate creation, human beings, turned out other that the way He intended. And welcome. You may want to reconsider the “I’m just here to witness and show you heathens the Way, the Truth and the Light” attitude. Sounds like you think you have all the answers and anyone who doesn’t agree with you is wrong. I guarantee you with that mindset your stay here will be very rocky and probably very short.

04-13-2002, 09:04 AM	#23
AspenMama Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Colorado Posts: 3,311	Barbara, I sincerely hope you return to talk with us. Meanwhile, I am locking this thread and moving it to a more appropriate forum. AspenMama

04-13-2002, 10:19 AM	#24
sullster Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: North of Boston Posts: 1,392	Babs, You sound like a good bible believing woman who is staying home and raising hubby's christian babies. Nothing wrong with that, mind you. You seem like a good woman who knows her place and obeys and submits. Your holy bible knows that women should be seen and not heard. There is a big reward for those who submit, especially for women. Good for you.

04-13-2002, 03:24 PM	#28
TacticalLoco Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Madison Wisconsin USA Posts: 1,559	Well, I certainly agree that intelligent, true christains(tm) are in short supply around here. (Why should we be different than the rest of the planet?) But... 10 Quatloo's says TC won't last a week.

04-13-2002, 08:57 PM	#30
echidna Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,832	Barbara, suffice to say you�ve suddenly made a lot of people very happy. Can I just offer that from what I can see, many of us here are not as Christian-hostile as others might come across. So please, stick around and whatever you do, don�t take things personally although this will be understandably difficult. With your chosen tag I�m afraid there will be some who view you as having cast the first stone. Personally I�m relatively confident that despite different outlooks, our similarities outweigh our differences.

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