Typhon

Am I an atheist?

When I ponder this question, I am at first inclined to say "yes." Taking a simplistic approach to the definition of the word, it breaks down in my mind to the following:

the·ist
n.
One who believes in the existence of a god or gods

a·the·ist
n.
One who disbelieves (or denies) the existence of a god or gods

So, this at first glance, seems simple enough. Especially if you take the rather biased/loaded use of the word "denies" out of the second definition. As an atheist, then I don't believe in the existence of any god or gods. It seems fairly cut and dry, or does it?

As I think about this statement, it's not wholly accurate. Perhaps I'm playing at semantics here, but it seems as if by saying that I'm an atheist, and an atheist doesn't believe in god or gods, so I don't believe in god(s), is missing something important. A strict reading of the definition would almost suggest that I have a blind spot around the concept of god or gods, like some kind of intellectual or moral monochromatism, which not surprisingly, many theists in my experience, appear to assume just this. I can see an conversation over one's belief or non belief in god(s), if this was true as being quite confusing.

A theist and an atheist walk into a bar, sit down, and each orders a beer…

Theist: What do you think about god?
The monochromatic atheist: What do I think about what?
Theist: I wanted to know if you would like to talk about god.
The monochromatic atheist: You wanted to talk about what?
Theist: About god.
The monochromatic atheist: That's what I said, about what?
Theist: You mean what god?
The monochromatic atheist: Yes, yes I mean what?
Theist: What what?
The monochromatic atheist: Yes, what? What did you want to talk about?
Theist: God, that's what.
The monochromatic atheist: What? I thought you wanted to talk about something?
Theist: I do! I want to talk all about god!
The monochromatic atheist: All right mister, that's enough of your game! You have to pick something to talk about first, if you want to talk all about it! And no more of this what what stuff buster!
Theist: What what?

(insert sound of bottle breaking)

Or perhaps if I the benighted atheist can be granted at least the understanding of the concept of god(s), I may still be unable to hold any set views about it/them. In such case, what could I possibly say about god(s) other than I heard of it, but didn't hold to any view on the subject?

But of course, I DO believe in gods. I'm absolutely a theist in this regard, having a "belief in the existence of a god or gods." But it is WHAT I believe about them, that matters. I believe, based on good, repeated, readily available, and plentiful evidence, that god and gods are created by humans, not the other way around.

I believe in God, and in Zeus, and in Ra, and in Raven, and in Mithras, and all the other gods and goddesses that have risen from our needs both biological and sociological, over the many millennia of cognition as a species. I just happen to believe that they are fables, myths, stories, and historical tidbits, not necessarily the creators of lightning in the sky or an afterworld. They exist in the minds and imaginations of their creators and their followers.

So, is this atheism, or theism? I don't deny that a god or gods exist. Nor am I unsure about the nature of such concepts. I'm certainly not undecided or in denial. God and theology is a creation of man, constructed from the ground up to serve our purposes, not the reverse. Of this I'm highly certain to a reasonable degree of probability.

.T.

[ April 09, 2002: Message edited by: Typhon ]</p>

Oolon Colluphid

Hi Typhon! You seem to have an odd definition of 'believe in' then. It is usually taken to mean 'believe in the true existence of'. By the way you mean it, one can just as easily 'believe in' Jane Eyre, Lady Chatterley, Mr Darcy, Tess Durbeyfield, Granny Weatherwax or Zaphod Beeblebrox. This is not the same thing as ‘believing in’ Julius Caesar.

Oolon

Wyrdsmyth

Hi Typhon,

Welcome to the board. I enjoyed your post, especially the dialogue. There have been any number of discussions around here about the precise meanings of such words as 'atheist' and 'agnostic,' whether they are worldviews in and of themselves, etc. Most of it is what I think of as 'semantic gymnastics.' I suspect a lot of theists try to assert their own definitions for the purposes of debate (i.e. to try to establish atheism as a worldview with its own positive claims that needs to be defended) and to often equivocate 'denial of the existence of god(s)' with the psychological state of 'being in denial.'

But, I agree with Oolon... by your definition of believing in gods, we could all claim to be theists. So your definition, while amusing, is practically worthless. It doesn't really address the matter of whether such a thing as a 'god' exists outside and independent of someone's imagination.

Automaton

A theist believes their god is an actual being. You do not. Therefore you are an atheist.

Philosoft

Further, you believe that god concepts exist in reality but not that said concepts accurately reflect reality. Interestingly, there is a school of noncongitive thought that denies the existence of most god concepts; they claim that theists and atheists erroneously act as if certain god concepts (ie the Judeo-Christian God) exist and that it is impossible to have a concept of a god with the attributes of the Judeo-Christian God.